6 tuner prime soon !!!

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Keenan
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by Keenan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:42 am

It won't be a problem for Comcast users as all of their channels save for the locals are 4Mb/s or less. The locals, in most areas, are still up to about 16-18Mb/s though it's a rare channel that's that high anymore as the bandwidth is split off to sub-channels.

And this is a cable tuner we're talking about isn't it? So the ATSC specs don't mean much here.

rpcameron
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rpcameron » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:10 pm

Keenan wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:42 am
And this is a cable tuner we're talking about isn't it? So the ATSC specs don't mean much here.
Yes, the Prime is not ATSC. However, I imagine many locals are the same feeds being broadcast ATSC, so I used that value for reference. (Also, I couldn't find any info about maximum bitrates for NA cable, so I figured I could use ATSC as a comparison and for context.)

In short, cable bitrates can be higher than ATSC, but not necessarily so. Also, as many cable providers switch to H.264, then the issue of high bitrates becomes less of an issue.

Keenan
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by Keenan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:17 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:10 pm
Keenan wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:42 am
And this is a cable tuner we're talking about isn't it? So the ATSC specs don't mean much here.
Yes, the Prime is not ATSC. However, I imagine many locals are the same feeds being broadcast ATSC, so I used that value for reference. (Also, I couldn't find any info about maximum bitrates for NA cable, so I figured I could use ATSC as a comparison and for context.)

In short, cable bitrates can be higher than ATSC, but not necessarily so. Also, as many cable providers switch to H.264, then the issue of high bitrates becomes less of an issue.
Yes, that why I noted about local channels. Theoretically, a 100 Mbit interface would be a problem if you had six 19.38 Mb/s MPEG2 local channels running at once but the likelihood of that happening is a probably less than me retiring to Mars. :D

techpro2004
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by techpro2004 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:41 pm

Mars actually looks like a nice place to live (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars,_Pennsylvania). :)

NedS
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm

EDIT: clarified below

armyb77
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by armyb77 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:11 pm

NedS wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm
Honest question for everyone, edge case or not, if the Prime 6 could only handle 5 concurrent channels (for whatever reason), would it still be worth buying for you?
For me, it would still be worth it (price point still at $199). I rarely truly need 6 tuners, but I often need more than 3. Many times we are recording 4 shows, and still, want to be able to watch live tv.

That being said. I would not want to buy a product that promised a future capability of 6 tuners but only 5 currently. That would just be more stringing your customers along. I would rather see the specs as 5 enabled tuners, without promises, and have a solid stable device. If 6 tuners became available through a firmware/software patch in the future, then great, but not needed.

The wish after more tuners would be, more integration with Plex and Amazon Fire with a grid guide and the ability to record and playback DRM through PLEX, emby, and other 3rd party software. Unless HDHomerun DVR Software becomes a full home media solution, 3rd party integration needs to be the priority over a prettier GUI.

Thanks for asking the question! This is, of course, my 2 cents.

mikesalz
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by mikesalz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:15 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:46 am
In practice, 100Mbps should be fine. If you are streaming multiple HD action streams (like several sports channels), then you might saturate the feed for a bit. But realistically it probably won't be a problem.
@rpcameron - Thank you for your input. Unfortunately, "probably won't be a problem" definitely should not be a concern with a new product entering the market. To me, it sounds like SD is trying to pinch pennies by using an inferior network interface. There is no reason not to put top notch hardware in this device.
NedS wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm
Honest question for everyone, edge case or not, if the Prime 6 could only handle 5 concurrent channels (for whatever reason), would it still be worth buying for you?
@NedS - I own the original Prime, and love it. I definitely want the 6 for more up-to-date hardware and more tuners. But if it can only stream 5 concurrent streams, then it is not the Prime 6. It is the Prime 5. This would be incredibly disappointing for a product we've been waiting almost a year and a half for. I would strongly consider NOT buying it if it does not perform as promised.
Last edited by mikesalz on Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYPlayer
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NYPlayer » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:17 pm

NedS wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:44 pm
Honest question for everyone, edge case or not, if the Prime 6 could only handle 5 concurrent channels (for whatever reason), would it still be worth buying for you?
I would be Leary to buy the tuner the way it stands now with only 100 Nic Card... So would be less inclined to buy with only 5 tuners.

NedS
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 am

Forgive me, the theoretical question wasn't specifically about the real Prime 6, where we have actually given specs and said it will have six tuners (don't worry, it will have six tuners).

If "Product X" existed but only did 5 concurrent streams for CableCARD, would that be worth buying?

Ken.F
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by Ken.F » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:08 am

NedS wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 am
If "Product X" existed but only did 5 concurrent streams for CableCARD, would that be worth buying?
If "Product X" actually existed it would be the only one available, so yes. If it had to compete with the 6 tuner model probably not.

NYPlayer
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NYPlayer » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:34 am

NedS wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 am
Forgive me, the theoretical question wasn't specifically about the real Prime 6, where we have actually given specs and said it will have six tuners (don't worry, it will have six tuners).

If "Product X" existed but only did 5 concurrent streams for CableCARD, would that be worth buying?
Yes

ihermit2
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by ihermit2 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:41 am

IN a perfect world cable cards and the need for the prime 6 would continue into the 4k content on cable and cable like providers. Satellite would be brought to heal and required to provide cable card access. And SD would not have their hardware all designed and specced out and be able to get us the bandwidth for 6 4k streams.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure when the switch to 4k happens there will be "raisins" that cable will not be able to support cable card any more and we'll need new solutions and may finally have to give up the control of how and when we spend time on content. But I can keep dreaming.

Rickt1962
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by Rickt1962 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:55 am

ihermit2 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:41 am
IN a perfect world cable cards and the need for the prime 6 would continue into the 4k content on cable and cable like providers. Satellite would be brought to heal and required to provide cable card access. And SD would not have their hardware all designed and specced out and be able to get us the bandwidth for 6 4k streams.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure when the switch to 4k happens there will be "raisins" that cable will not be able to support cable card any more and we'll need new solutions and may finally have to give up the control of how and when we spend time on content. But I can keep dreaming.
Cable cards are not tuners. They send and receive encryption keys

gtb
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by gtb » Wed May 01, 2019 1:20 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:10 pm
Yes, the Prime is not ATSC. However, I imagine many locals are the same feeds being broadcast ATSC, so I used that value for reference.
There are two parts here. First, most broadcasters do not dedicate the full 18Mb/s ATSC to a single multiplex (there are other subchannels), so except in a very unique market, you cannot see more than 100Mb/s for even 6 OTAs. Second, most cable operators transcode OTA to a lower bitrate to meet their channel requirements. That is why in locations where it is viable people will use OTA for the locals to be able to get better quality than they get over cable.

gtb
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by gtb » Wed May 01, 2019 1:29 pm

Rickt1962 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:55 am
Cable cards are not tuners. They send and receive encryption keys
And decodes the streams for its paired host using the encryption and provisioning information sent to it via EMMs. A CableCARD itself is bandwidth limited to 200Mbps(*). Which, if any cable company sent a single channel using all 38Mbps bitrate (in a single 256QAM 6MHz channel) it could not decode more than 5 streams. But, again, that does not happen in any real world case.


(*) I believe I saw reference to a very specific Cisco CableCARD, when paired with a very specific Cisco STB, that might be able to run faster.

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