Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

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tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:03 pm

I'm not implying they are, I'm saying the exact opposite - Omniverse is working for themselves to make the best deal they can for themselves and are not looking out for the interests of any downstream users.
For all we know, pulling the channels from SD was the cost that Omniverse had to pay to preserve their contracts otherwise. Official SD reps have given us a million reasons to not trust Omniverse -- in the absence of further information to the contrary, I am really not sure how anyone could trust Omniverse on this issue right now.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:12 pm

I'm not implying they are, I'm saying the exact opposite - Omniverse is working for themselves to make the best deal they can for themselves and are not looking out for the interests of any downstream users.
For all we know, pulling the channels from SD was the cost that Omniverse had to pay to preserve their contracts otherwise. Official SD reps have given us a million reasons to not trust Omniverse -- in the absence of further information to the contrary, I am really not sure how anyone could trust Omniverse on this issue right now.
Possibly. But the whole thing points to the greed of the content providers - "hey you are making money we didn't know about with an agreement we signed, give us more money!"

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:17 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree. You see malice where I see an unfortunate series of events.
Not malice -- business.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree. You see malice where I see an unfortunate series of events.
Not malice -- business.
You implied some sort of coverup because they haven't changed their pricing scale yet could change a single graphic on a web site. That hints at malicious intent. Trying to intentionally deceive customers in a customer base this small (growing but still small) would be stupidity not business.

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:01 pm

You implied some sort of coverup because they haven't changed their pricing scale yet could change a single graphic on a web site. That hints at malicious intent. Trying to intentionally deceive customers in a customer base this small (growing but still small) would be stupidity not business.
I am guessing they planned on this business having a thin margin at $34.99. I don't think they are probably able to lower it at this point, and they are probably running at a loss for every user they have to credit $10. Nothing wrong with that, but a straightforward answer to current and potential customers on this forum would be nice.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:14 pm

You implied some sort of coverup because they haven't changed their pricing scale yet could change a single graphic on a web site. That hints at malicious intent. Trying to intentionally deceive customers in a customer base this small (growing but still small) would be stupidity not business.
I am guessing they planned on this business having a thin margin at $34.99. I don't think they are probably able to lower it at this point, and they are probably running at a loss for every user they have to credit $10. Nothing wrong with that, but a straightforward answer to current and potential customers on this forum would be nice.
An answer based on what ? They don't know what the outcome of the contract negotiations will be. How can SD provide an answer without all of the facts ? As part of my job, I was involved in a contract dispute with an ISP - once the lawyers got involved that took 6 months to get sorted out and we were lucky. I'm not saying you aren't right about the thin margins but I don't think they have enough information to lay out what the "new normal" is going to be.

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:15 pm

Possibly. But the whole thing points to the greed of the content providers - "hey you are making money we didn't know about with an agreement we signed, give us more money!"
For what it's worth, no content provider actually signed an agreement with Omniverse. Omniverse bought agreements from other companies. And it seems quite possible that Omniverse is pushing the boundaries of those agreements, if not breaking them outright.

If this was just a money issue, I suspect it would be resolved by now (good or bad), or at least we would know what's going on. When Comcast, Fox, etc. are involved in contract disputes, there's generally no mystery.

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:21 pm

An answer based on what ? They don't know what the outcome of the contract negotiations will be. How can SD provide an answer without all of the facts ? As part of my job, I was involved in a contract dispute with an ISP - once the lawyers got involved that took 6 months to get sorted out and we were lucky. I'm not saying you aren't right about the thin margins but I don't think they have enough information to lay out what the "new normal" is going to be.
An answer to the billing questions is what I meant. Will the $10 credit ever be automatic again? Are new customers eligible for the $10 credit? Customers shouldn't have to pull teeth to get answers to questions like that.

Although it wouldn't be bad to be upfront with what they have heard from Omniverse too. If Omniverse is keeping SD in the dark yet again, that portends badly for these channels returning, and I think SD customers deserve to know.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:28 pm

Possibly. But the whole thing points to the greed of the content providers - "hey you are making money we didn't know about with an agreement we signed, give us more money!"
For what it's worth, no content provider actually signed an agreement with Omniverse. Omniverse bought agreements from other companies. And it seems quite possible that Omniverse is pushing the boundaries of those agreements, if not breaking them outright.

If this was just a money issue, I suspect it would be resolved by now (good or bad), or at least we would know what's going on. When Comcast, Fox, etc. are involved in contract disputes, there's generally no mystery.
When Omniverse bought those agreements and they started to become lucrative then it was suddenly a problem was where I was going with that.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:32 pm

An answer based on what ? They don't know what the outcome of the contract negotiations will be. How can SD provide an answer without all of the facts ? As part of my job, I was involved in a contract dispute with an ISP - once the lawyers got involved that took 6 months to get sorted out and we were lucky. I'm not saying you aren't right about the thin margins but I don't think they have enough information to lay out what the "new normal" is going to be.
An answer to the billing questions is what I meant. Will the $10 credit ever be automatic again? Are new customers eligible for the $10 credit? Customers shouldn't have to pull teeth to get answers to questions like that.

Although it wouldn't be bad to be upfront with what they have heard from Omniverse too. If Omniverse is keeping SD in the dark yet again, that portends badly for these channels returning, and I think SD customers deserve to know.
I've deleted the reply I got from support on my ticket about the charges but that is what was implied - that the credit should have been automatic had there not been an issue.

I don't think they've been getting any status from Omniverse so they have nothing to report but as I said once lawyers get involved issues like this can drag out so there may be no updates to be had beyond "negotiations are ongoing".

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:45 pm

When Omniverse bought those agreements and they started to become lucrative then it was suddenly a problem was where I was going with that.
I'm not sure the Omniverse deals are particularly lucrative for anyone, except maybe a few executives.

In any case, I appreciate your polite correspondence. I only wish your were an official SD representative. :)

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:04 pm

I don't think they've been getting any status from Omniverse so they have nothing to report but as I said once lawyers get involved issues like this can drag out so there may be no updates to be had beyond "negotiations are ongoing".
I'd like to know if lawyers are even involved at this point. Contrary to what you say, I don't think these channels are out for many other Omniverse providers, if any. Does Omniverse even have the resources to pay lawyers to fight this, especially if the scope of the dispute is really just a subset of channels going to one provider? Not every company can dispatch lawyers even if they want to.

You can still ultimately blame the big bad content provider for the missing channels, but I don't like Omniverse or SD misleading customers (even just by omission) about what's going on either.

zaytar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby zaytar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:20 pm

I don't think they've been getting any status from Omniverse so they have nothing to report but as I said once lawyers get involved issues like this can drag out so there may be no updates to be had beyond "negotiations are ongoing".
I'd like to know if lawyers are even involved at this point. Contrary to what you say, I don't think these channels are out for many other Omniverse providers, if any. Does Omniverse even have the resources to pay lawyers to fight this, especially if the scope of the dispute is really just a subset of channels going to one provider? Not every company can dispatch lawyers even if they want to.
They *were* out as it was reported on Reddit, AVSForums, etc. I don't know if they still are or not but the first action was to turn off the feeds for any downstream users in question. Any company that deals with media like this would have someone on retainer to go over contracts.
You can still ultimately blame the big bad content provider for the missing channels, but I don't like Omniverse or SD misleading customers (even just by omission) about what's going on either.
As I've said over and over the omission is probably unavoidable. From my own experience, sometimes when you are negotiating a contract you have to sign an NDA for those negotiations. Or it could be that the blow by blow information isn't helpful to anyone (e.g. "Today;s update - Omniverse offered to pay $3 more per customer to retain the rights, waiting on a response by Friday at 5pm", etc). This kind of stuff is boring to do in real life much less read about.

I'm not really sure what you want SD to say beyond what they have already if things are still being negotiated. And if negotiations are not still going on and SD is working on plan B but they are not ready to release that information to the public, why would they release incomplete plans ?

If you really feel like you are being "mislead" and that something sinister is going on, why are you still a customer ? Not trying to be insulting but if I thought for one minute that SD or any company was being shady I'd close my accounts and move on. I did it with AT&T, then when AT&T bought DirecTV I cancelled them as well. No one should stay subscribed if they feel they are being lied to - I just personally don't think that is the case with SD.

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:51 pm

They *were* out as it was reported on Reddit, AVSForums, etc. I don't know if they still are or not but the first action was to turn off the feeds for any downstream users in question. Any company that deals with media like this would have someone on retainer to go over contracts.
Again, I believe they were out on maybe one other provider, and quickly restored. I have seen no evidence that these channels are out on any other Omniverse provider the last 2 months. I understand as SD supporters, we would *want* the issue to be more widespread, but it's misleading to keep claiming it is without evidence beyond November Reddit posts.

Also, Omniverse is only very recently a "media company". It would not surprise me in the least if they had limited legal resources.

tonywagner
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Nickk - Please Confirm Credit Due to Channel Issues.

Postby tonywagner » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:12 pm

As I've said over and over the omission is probably unavoidable. From my own experience, sometimes when you are negotiating a contract you have to sign an NDA for those negotiations. Or it could be that the blow by blow information isn't helpful to anyone (e.g. "Today;s update - Omniverse offered to pay $3 more per customer to retain the rights, waiting on a response by Friday at 5pm", etc). This kind of stuff is boring to do in real life much less read about.
Maybe I haven't been clear, but I would find that immensely helpful. It would mean inproved communication between SD and Omniverse, for one, and real hope that the missing channels might come back -- not just wishcasting. The suggestion that they are limited by a NDA is pretty ridiculous -- we all know Omniverse doesn't even communicate about maintenance downtime, and we know SD is understaffed to the point of non-responsiveness to a variety of valid questions here on the forum. There's no NDA, and even if there was, they could simply say there's an NDA.


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