Premium TV - Video Quality

Support for and discussion of the HDHomeRun Premium TV service
pixelstuff
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:27 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby pixelstuff » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Agreed with Demonrik, the de-interlacing really kills it for my viewing. Watching 1080i sourced is so annoying. I'm not an encoding guru, but as a video editor it's still painful. I may unsubscribe (just got it today) until this and the Plex stuttering/sync issues are fixed. And I just bought a 2nd HDHR Extend today for Premium!

LOVE HDHR OTA & Plex, and if Premium/Plex gets fixed, I'm totally sold on that combo.
Same here.

Zorg
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Zorg » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:15 pm

I'm struggling to answer this one, both because I've never actually seen youtube tv, and because I genuinely have no idea how ours will compare. We're expecting it to look great, but we haven't even started co-locating anything, so we don't even have any test video to review. So in the words of the Magic 8 Ball: Ask again later.
I appreciate the answer, but I'm a little surprised that you haven't seen what the competition is doing. You should check it out.

My family are recent converts to cord-cutting, so we have active subscriptions to YTTV, DTVN, and now HD Premium to try them all out. Lots of A/B/C comparisons going on at my house lately. The PQ for DTVNow (live) and YTTV (live or DVR) looks outstanding to us. Action is smooth and everything looks sharp and detailed. As good as, if not better than, local cable or satellite. The same channels on PremiumTV, back-to-back, are a bit softer and with the annoying motion stuttering that others are talking about. It feels more "streamy" than the others, if that makes sense.

Make no mistake, YTTV and DTVN each have their own set of problems. If they didn't, I wouldn't be here. :lol: I just see a lot of potential in PremiumTV as being the "perfect" solution for my household if the PQ were just improved a bit.

Eagerly waiting!

wellthatsnotgood
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby wellthatsnotgood » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:47 pm

Agreed with Demonrik, the de-interlacing really kills it for my viewing. Watching 1080i sourced is so annoying. I'm not an encoding guru, but as a video editor it's still painful.
Yeah, I hate interlaced content (because it's so rarely de-interlaced properly). It's an artifact of analog broadcasting and never should've been brought to digital content (fortunately they got it right for UHD and all of those standard resolutions are progressive).

A lot of places provide episodes in 1080p resolution on demand in their apps, which seems to imply that they are producing the content in 1080p (or better). So I'm not sure why they don't make a 1080p source of their live channels available. Even if live tv services don't have the bandwidth for 1080p it'd be a much better source to downscale to 720p than 1080i is. Hopefully the broadcast networks will at least switch from 1080i to 1080p when ATSC 3.0 takes off.

Wildcat_1
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:42 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Wildcat_1 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:50 pm

@nickk just wondering if there are any updates on the quality issues ? Specifically still seeing soft video, artifacting and generally not great quality. Wanted to know where you guys were on the 2 step plan you mentioned and specifically if the encoding in house option was in place. Would like to see the quality piece improve especially as (like others have mentioned) competitors are offering crisper feeds (many in 1080 even).

Hope the quality improvements you shared a few weeks back will see the light of day soon as it will be a great service once quality improved IMO.

Thanks

Saiz
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:04 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Saiz » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:59 pm

@nickk just wondering if there are any updates on the quality issues ? Specifically still seeing soft video, artifacting and generally not great quality. Wanted to know where you guys were on the 2 step plan you mentioned and specifically if the encoding in house option was in place. Would like to see the quality piece improve especially as (like others have mentioned) competitors are offering crisper feeds (many in 1080 even).

Hope the quality improvements you shared a few weeks back will see the light of day soon as it will be a great service once quality improved IMO.

Thanks
Some where buried he said they needed to install their own hardware in the colo the video streams were coming from. They didn't give a timeline, just they were trying to do it as soon as possible. Hopefully they can get everything smoothed out and installed before most peoples renewal dates. He said it was going to be a race before a lot of peoples first 30 days are up to get it installed and configured in time.

Here it is
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=69314&start=180#p327281

Ken.F
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Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Ken.F » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:01 pm

I'm watching a live stream of the Buffalo/Temple football game using the ESPN3 Kodi add-on on my Mi Box. It looks fantastic on my 50" Panny plasma. I don't know what kind of encoding ESPN3 does but if Premium TV can match that I'd be very happy.

pixelstuff
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:27 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby pixelstuff » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:08 pm

Today I dropped a show from a Premium Channel into AVIDemux. The index frames seem much further apart than recordings from an Over-The-Air channel. Is that an artifact of the h.264 compression, or the variable bitrate, or another specific setting to help get the bit rate down?

I wonder if some of that could be related to the weird symptoms like bad pixelation or plex recordings being more freeze frame now than they were in the first week when it was constant bit rate? Right now all recordings in Plex are unwatchable as a local file in VLC compared to the first week they were watchable but low in detail.

Recordings in the Channels DVR will play smoothly in VLC, but if you skip to another section there is always a half second or more of audio that plays before the picture shows up.

Over the air channels don't have any of these problems even though they sometimes have weather interference issues.
Last edited by pixelstuff on Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Noah0504
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Noah0504 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:23 pm

I wonder if some of that could be related to the weird symptoms like bad pixelation or plex recordings being more freeze frame now than they were in the first week when it was constant bit rate? Right now all recordings in Plex are unwatchable as a local file in VLC compared to the first week they were watchable but low in detail.
Plex was working fine after the change to variable bit rate. Last Saturday, things were fine, then they weren't. Clearly something else changed, but I have no idea what it was. Of course, maybe what you mentioned is a possible cause now.

spencer777
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby spencer777 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:33 am

Now doing a trial of Emby, the picture is so much better. The stats are showing 8Mbps. How is that possible?

Noah0504
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Noah0504 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:39 am

Now doing a trial of Emby, the picture is so much better. The stats are showing 8Mbps. How is that possible?
It's not. It says that. It never changes. I think it has to do with the variable bittrate of the PTV streams.

spencer777
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby spencer777 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:45 am

Now doing a trial of Emby, the picture is so much better. The stats are showing 8Mbps. How is that possible?
It's not. It says that. It never changes. I think it has to do with the variable bittrate of the PTV streams.
Yeah, i know the bitrate can't be different, just like it shows 20mbps for OTA. I Turned on the stats after noticing the picture is much better. I am watching Tennis on Espn and i thought it was OTA

eds
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Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby eds » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:53 am

Now doing a trial of Emby, the picture is so much better. The stats are showing 8Mbps. How is that possible?
Can I ask: how did you manage to get a trial of emby?

spencer777
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby spencer777 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:58 am

Now doing a trial of Emby, the picture is so much better. The stats are showing 8Mbps. How is that possible?
Can I ask: how did you manage to get a trial of emby?
I should have said trying, but it looks like Amazon sells a subscription directly with a 2 week trial.

mgranger
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby mgranger » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:01 pm

So I tried watching my first live tv tonight from premium tv on the emby and/or hd home run app on Sony android tv. It was unwatchable. Not so much quality but the stuttering was so much that I missed the game. I switched over to yttv and it was fine. All the recording that I have made (except for last night) have seemed to be ok so far. Just a little disappointing

clarkss12
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Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby clarkss12 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:24 pm

The NFL Monday night game was broadcast by ESPN on the HDHR Premium Channels, but also was broadcast over the air (OTA) by the ABC affiliate. This gave me an opportunity to watch the game from the OTA stream AND from the HDHomeRun Premium channels.

I tested it on my 65" Samsung UHD (4k) LED TV, viewing from approximately, 15' from the TV, slightly offset to the left. One of my leads from my roof mounted antenna, goes directly into the on-board ATSC tuner of the TV. Another two feeds, go into one Connect and one Extend. For the HDHomeRun DVR, I use the WD single bay NAS from the kickstarter. I also use the Emby DVR as a backup.

I also tested it on a 42" 1080p LED TV.

I watched ONE quarter of the game with the stream being fed directly into the TV's internal ATSC tuner from the external antenna. The quality of the picture was great. My observations are strictly from MY 70 year old eyeballs, with prescription glasses, so newer eyeballs MAY see something different.

Next, I watched a quarter of the game from an Emby recording, and it was EXACTLY as the video AND audio quality that I got when using the direct feed into my TV. I am using microPC (Vorke V2) as my Emby server and one of my Synology NAS's as my recording destination. My media player is an Amlogic S912 Android TV box running both the Emby and HDHomeRun clients. This device feeds into my Yamaha AVR, then into my 4k TV via HDMI cables. My TV feeds the audio from the OTA streams, back to the AVR for audio, using a Toslink cable, to give me Dolby Digital and DTS audio. So, I got Dolby Digital from both the feed from the antenna and from the Emby recording.

Next, I watched a quarter of the game using an over the air recording using the HDHomeRun client running on the Android box. The video was great, same as the quality of the stream played directly from the TV tuner. I also go Dolby Digital.

Next, I watched a quarter of the game using the ESPN HDHR Premium channel recording. The quality was obviously NOT as great as the OTA streams, but was acceptable. The only really noticeable **artifacts** occurred when they went to different cameras. I would say the quality is on par of a 480p quality video, perhaps a little better. At this time, it is only available in stereo, no Dolby Digital.

Next I watched part of a quarter of the game on a 42" 1080p TV at a distance of approximately 9'. The quality of the HDHR Premium ESPN channel, is much better on a 1080p TV.

Summation, the quality of the Premium channel for sports is very acceptable, especially on a non 4k TV.

Sill hoping for the HEVC upgrade, that should give a perfect video, and audio.

These are my observations, and your mileage may vary.


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