Premium TV - Video Quality

Support for and discussion of the HDHomeRun Premium TV service
GetMatt
Posts: 1667
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:45 pm
Location: Device ID: 1310683C, 13196816, 10733FC0

Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby GetMatt » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:01 pm

Decided to start a new thread on this since everything is getting lost in the chaos of the Premium TV thread.

We are seeing a lot of video degradation. Some channels are bad in general, others are better with a slow scene. Whenever there is a pan or fast movement the quality gets significantly worse.

It also looks to me like this is likely coming from Comcast with the lower bit rate and channel numbering. But when we were in Seattle using Comcast the quality was better even with the lower bit rate.

Online
ACraigo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby ACraigo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:34 pm

Yes, the quality at this moment is pants.

The stream is poorly encoded and bit starved. Where ever it's coming from and whoever is doing it, it's not being done right.

I was watching Scrubs on Comedy Central a while ago and 4:3 content from one of the first 3 seasons was being exploded to 16:9. I'm not sure who is responsible for that, but I can tell you it's just wrong on so many levels.

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 14931
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby nickk » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:17 pm

We are not happy with the encoding, especially on some of channels - we are working with our provider to address.

Nick

Online
ACraigo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby ACraigo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:41 pm

I read that earlier and hope the quality issue is soon resolved.

Your input here is much appreciated.

jasonmcroy
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby jasonmcroy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:29 pm

Glad a new thread was started on this. I know a lot of people are asking for more channels, less channels, etc., but if the quality isn't improved pretty quickly, it doesn't matter what channels exist. I know Nick has said it's his highest priority so I hope this gets resolved pretty fast. I am totally sold on this addition and outside of the delivery of the content, it is absolutely perfect for my setup. I am more than excited to use this and I will be a lifetime user of this.

Thanks to Nick for responding in this thread. Sometimes the silence worries me, but any information makes me feel like I made a good decision and this will go in the right direction.

Wildcat_1
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:42 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby Wildcat_1 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:35 pm

Would have to agree here that quality is not good at all. Unfortunately in a lot of cases feels like a beta quality product and maybe a 1 month trial would have been a better option for us early adopters. Either way, good to see @Nick on the case and hopefully this can be resolved soon.

lsawyer
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby lsawyer » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:19 am

Any idea who the backend channel supplier is for this service? Has anyone done a packet capture to see what IP the channels are coming from?

wadewood
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:17 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby wadewood » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:20 am

My contract with Comcast was up in a month and I was planning on cutting the cord and going to a streaming package so timing of this was perfect. I own both a Prime and a Quattro. I signed up for Premium TV and unplugged the Prime. From the end user POV, it was seamless - use same devices and in same manner and did not even have to adjust my DVR recordings. Very high WAF - almost. I didn't tell her and just waited a few days to see if she noticed. Well she noticed - told me this morning to check on TV as the shows she watched past 2 days have been 'fuzzy'. So unless the video quality issues can be resolved in next 3 weeks, I'll have to look elsewhere.

spencer777
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby spencer777 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:56 am

[removed by moderator]

petemitchell
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:23 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby petemitchell » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:28 am

Is there any indication of what the quality "goal" is? Native channel resolution (1080, or 720 for channels broadcast at that resolution), bitrate (OTA quality, DirecTV quality, mediocre cable quality), etc.?

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 14931
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby nickk » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:42 pm

We have been running a ton of tests and have come up with a two stage plan...

Stage 1 is an improvement of the current encoding...

Video = h264 720p 30fps.
Eliminate the quality loss during movement.
Fix channel specific issues that have been identified.

Stage 2 is to get things where we want them to be...

Video = High Quality HEVC 720p 60fps.
Audio = 5.1 channel (for channels broadcast in surround sound).
Second audio track available (for channels broadcast with a second audio track).

Both stages are underway.

Nick

jasonmcroy
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby jasonmcroy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:48 pm

We have been running a ton of tests and have come up with a two stage plan...

Stage 1 is an improvement of the current encoding...

Video = h264 720p 30fps.
Eliminate the quality loss during movement.
Fix channel specific issues that have been identified.

Stage 2 is to get things where we want them to be...

Video = High Quality HEVC 720p 60fps.
Audio = 5.1 channel (for channels broadcast in surround sound).
Second audio track available (for channels broadcast with a second audio track).

Both stages are underway.

Nick
Thanks for that update @Nickk - I am happy to hear you guys are on this and working toward the overall goal.

Online
ACraigo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby ACraigo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:16 pm

I fear HEVC is going to make a niche group very happy, while creating issues for most potential customers. For instance, I'm not technically or equipment challenged, but only have one unit, of 10, that can work with HEVC.

In my case ALL of the media I watch will be pre-processed before watching - and HEVC will take at least twice as long to complete. On the surface that doesn't sound too bad in my case, because when pre-processing is complete I'll have compatible media to play across all my devices. It'll take as long as it takes.

For others, they'll have HEVC encodes that simply won't work on whatever they're trying to play them on. That's going to be a problem.

There's a whole building full of canned worms associated with HEVC. It might be wise to 'experiment' lightly at first, so when problem reports start flooding in another direction can be mapped out.

petemitchell
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:23 am

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby petemitchell » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:58 pm

I fear HEVC is going to make a niche group very happy, while creating issues for most potential customers. For instance, I'm not technically or equipment challenged, but only have one unit, of 10, that can work with HEVC.

In my case ALL of the media I watch will be pre-processed before watching - and HEVC will take at least twice as long to complete. On the surface that doesn't sound too bad in my case, because when pre-processing is complete I'll have compatible media to play across all my devices. It'll take as long as it takes.

For others, they'll have HEVC encodes that simply won't work on whatever they're trying to play them on. That's going to be a problem.

There's a whole building full of canned worms associated with HEVC. It might be wise to 'experiment' lightly at first, so when problem reports start flooding in another direction can be mapped out.
From what I've read, pretty much any PC from 2015 or mobile device from late-2014 can hardware decode HEVC. There are some notable systems that can't, including PS4, but I'd rather see SiliconDust be forward thinking and lose a few potential customers than be stuck in the past. My $.02

Online
ACraigo
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Premium TV - Video Quality

Postby ACraigo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:24 pm

From what I've read, pretty much any PC from 2015 or mobile device from late-2014 can hardware decode HEVC. There are some notable systems that can't, including PS4, but I'd rather see SiliconDust be forward thinking and lose a few potential customers than be stuck in the past. My $.02
Quoted directly from the article you linked:
As HEVC is relatively new to the scene, it’s not nearly as compatible with existing playback devices as H.264. Many such devices have dedicated hardware for decoding H.264 streams, while equivalent hardware for decoding HEVC is significantly less common. That’s not to say it’s impossible to decode HEVC on today’s devices – software playback is still possible on a wide variety of hardware, and some hardware decoding solutions exist – but something that can play H.264 is not necessarily HEVC-compatible.
Many people are clamoring for HEVC. That trend will continue until they find out it's not exactly ready for prime time across a large percentage of devices that are now running H264 without issue.


Return to “HDHomeRun Premium TV”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ACraigo and 3 guests