Same number, different channels

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
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Turk3yb0y1
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 am

Same number, different channels

Post by Turk3yb0y1 »

It's been a while since I asked here but can the developers please help this problem.

I get two different channel 15s. WHRO(rf31), and WUDW-LD(rf15).

15.1 always goes to WHRO since it's HD, 15.5,6,7 obviously go to WUDW even though they're blank/infomercials, but it's always unclear where 15.2,3,4 are going to tune. Like now, currently they all point to WUDW, but the guide data for 15.2 shows NTD (WUDW) while 15.3,4 show as WHRO's PBS.

I really want both 15.1s to work, the rest of the channels are duplicates or not interesting for now, but the owner of these low power stations are adding new content all the time.

I'm not the only one with this problem, speaking on a Facebook group about this I came across someone near Harrisburg PA who also has two separate channel 8s, and I'm sure it happens elsewhere too. I used to get two 45s before one went ATSC3.0, and now I'm on the cusp of being able to get another market which would bring me two different 27s.

I know my tuner is physically capable of receiving them both, as it works in the config software, but no client on the tv will easily show it. I had a thread here forever ago that must've expired, giving directions to direct VLC via Xbox to a streaming address (it technically worked but you had to manually add it every time and I've since forgotten how to do that), but I just want it to work. The one channel that doesn't come in at all, Buzzr, is my wife's favorite OTA channel. (I realize there's other ways to get Buzzr for free but that isn't the point).

I've even gone as far as trying to contact the station owner to try and get them to change channel numbers, not sure if that's even a possibility. But it seems like such a simple bug to fix in the software, as most standard tv tuners have a way to just show both.

If there's a third party client software that will get HDHomeRun right, please point me in that direction, if it's possible to add a line of code that would allow for this, please do.

Device ID 104A0658
Thanks

kyl416
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:09 pm
Device ID: 1080DB11
Location: Tobyhanna, PA
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Re: Same number, different channels

Post by kyl416 »

Turk3yb0y1 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:41 amI've even gone as far as trying to contact the station owner to try and get them to change channel numbers, not sure if that's even a possibility. But it seems like such a simple bug to fix in the software, as most standard tv tuners have a way to just show both.
Try contacting WHRO's engineers and tell them that WUDW-LD's virtual 15 is causing conflicts on your TVs, they can complain about it to the FCC, and since WUDW-LD is a LPTV license, they will be the one to forced to change their major number. In this case the contours clearly overlap, so it should be an open and shut issue if WHRO complains.


The Harrisburg thing is different. In that case both virtual 8s are WGAL who has their main signal on RF 8 in Lancaster and a low power UHF translator in Harrisburg on RF 35. Ideally the HDHomerun should only store the signal with the stronger SNR since both 8's have the same content and resolutions, but in the real world VHF ambient noise issues and temporary atmospheric boost conditions could lead to the weaker signal being stored instead. (i.e. there have been times where I've picked up WGAL's UHF translator over 95 miles away in Northeastern PA)


The virtual number conflict thing isn't a HDHomeRun only issue. Many actual TVs have the same problem where they either only store the first or last one it scanned and either ignore the duplicates entirely or give them fake channel numbers.

Turk3yb0y1
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 am

Re: Same number, different channels

Post by Turk3yb0y1 »

kyl416 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:02 pm
Turk3yb0y1 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:41 amI've even gone as far as trying to contact the station owner to try and get them to change channel numbers, not sure if that's even a possibility. But it seems like such a simple bug to fix in the software, as most standard tv tuners have a way to just show both.
Try contacting WHRO's engineers and tell them that WUDW-LD's virtual 15 is causing conflicts on your TVs, they can complain about it to the FCC, and since WUDW-LD is a LPTV license, they will be the one to forced to change their major number. In this case the contours clearly overlap, so it should be an open and shut issue if WHRO complains.

The virtual number conflict thing isn't a HDHomeRun only issue. Many actual TVs have the same problem where they either only store the first or last one it scanned and either ignore the duplicates entirely or give them fake channel numbers.
I have one tv connected to the antenna which adds them both. Sometimes they scan in on their rf channel numbers not virtual, but I always get them both.

I'll try looking up WHRO's contact info and go that route, not trying to get fcc involved and go all Karen (haha) just trying to make the situation better. Here's another we found using Channels Plus with a similar problem https://community.getchannels.com/t/how ... PjzKiWIZuo. From my nontechnical perspective it sounds like just a line of code but I know I don't know what all that entails, whether it's considered such a rarity it's a nonissue or if there's actual technical reasons it can't happen.

Thanks

kyl416
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:09 pm
Device ID: 1080DB11
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Re: Same number, different channels

Post by kyl416 »

LPTV signals are considered secondary to full power stations, so if there's a conflict the LPTV signal is the one that has to change. If the LPTV signal doesn't respond to a viewer complaint, which isn't surprising considering it's a HC2 owned signal, the only way get this resolved is to get the full power station to complain and have the FCC force the LPTV signal to change major numbers. Because of the repack, tower site moves and spectrum sharing on larger signals, a lot of LPTV signals had to change their virtual numbers over the past few years because of new conflicts.

It's a lot more than one line of code that needs to be changed. HDHomeRun's current URL structure is http://hdhomerun.local/auto/v15.1 with no way to specify which 15.1 you want. In order to add support for duplicate major-minors they would have to revamp the URLs, and the apps that rely on the json API will have to revamp their coding too and use the physical parameters like Frequency and ProgramNumber instead of the virtual GuideNumber.

FoodLioon
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm
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Re: Same number, different channels

Post by FoodLioon »

Check out the http api page, specifically tuning by frequency-
https://info.hdhomerun.com/info/http_ap ... f_vchannel
One thing to note is that program numbers don't always match up with the minor channel number.

Third party programs I recommend that can rely on their own scans are NextPVR on Windows and TVHeadend on Linux. NextPVR needs the BDA drivers supplied from the HDHomeRun WIndows Package in order to have its own scan.

Turk3yb0y1
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 am

Re: Same number, different channels

Post by Turk3yb0y1 »

kyl416 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:36 pm It's a lot more than one line of code that needs to be changed. HDHomeRun's current URL structure is http://hdhomerun.local/auto/v15.1 with no way to specify which 15.1 you want. In order to add support for duplicate major-minors they would have to revamp the URLs, and the apps that rely on them will have to revamp their coding too and use the physical parameters like Frequency and ProgramNumber instead of the virtual GuideNumber.
Or have a way to set up in the software which one it chooses the same way we enable/disable channels, and redirect to that url structure. Even if guide data was wrong (as it is now) would still work.

I did find something like this https://www.tequipment.net/Televes/5653 ... gJe1vD_BwE but $1200 seems a bit overkill :lol:

I've emailed WHRO, will see if anything comes of it.

Turk3yb0y1
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 am

Re: Same number, different channels

Post by Turk3yb0y1 »

FoodLioon wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:51 pm Check out the http api page, specifically tuning by frequency-
https://info.hdhomerun.com/info/http_ap ... f_vchannel
One thing to note is that program numbers don't always match up with the minor channel number.

Third party programs I recommend that can rely on their own scans are NextPVR on Windows and TVHeadend on Linux. NextPVR needs the BDA drivers supplied from the HDHomeRun WIndows Package in order to have its own scan.
That first link is super helpful. I'm able to get the channel that way, pretty sure that was the link I was given before. http://192.168.1.210:5004/auto/ch479000000-1001

I tried NextPVR, it is just importing the channels already in HDHomeRun guide. Downloaded the HDHomeRun Windows software but don't see an option for NextPVR to do its own scan.

FoodLioon
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm
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Re: Same number, different channels

Post by FoodLioon »

Turk3yb0y1 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:27 pm That first link is super helpful. I'm able to get the channel that way, pretty sure that was the link I was given before. http://192.168.1.210:5004/auto/ch479000000-1001

I tried NextPVR, it is just importing the channels already in HDHomeRun guide. Downloaded the HDHomeRun Windows software but don't see an option for NextPVR to do its own scan.
There is a NextPVR setting in the HDHomeRun setup on Windows. Also, you need to use the ATSC protocol in NextPVR to do a scan. This isn't a good place for NextPVR questions as it is for HDHomeRun software.

Turk3yb0y1
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:46 am

Re: Same number, different channels

Post by Turk3yb0y1 »

FoodLioon wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:36 pm There is a NextPVR setting in the HDHomeRun setup on Windows. Also, you need to use the ATSC protocol in NextPVR to do a scan. This isn't a good place for NextPVR questions as it is for HDHomeRun software.
Got it; it showed up now. Thanks...

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