HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
loopium
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:49 am
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:37 am Yes. But why does the app need this adjustements... It shouldn't. Again, VLC plays perfectly smooth all the channels whithout any stutters, not even small one.
VLC plays at the reported frames-per-second where the length of a second is determined by the local system clock. The HDHomeRun app does the same thing for recorded content.

Because VLC isn't applying the correction it will get more and more out of sync with the broadcaster.
If the broadcaster second is slower than a local second it will periodically have to do a buffering pause.
If the broadcaster second is faster than a local second the playback will slowly get more and more behind real-time.
We also see a problem with VLC where it will sometimes get stuck in a rapid buffering-play loop when you first start a channel.

Nick
Alright, so if I understand well, it's either you're in live with the broadcaster but you have stutters (due to correction) or you're out of sync but it's smooth.
nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:52 am
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:47 am In my case not exactly, because the broadcaster sends a 50 Hz frame-rate. And my display setting on Shield is on 50 Hz too. And as i said, on VLC I checked and it's perfectly smooth, so to me it's 100% software related (HDHR app).
In EU the frame rate from the broadcaster is usually 50 frames-per-second and the HDHomeRun app configures the HDMI link to 50 frames-per-second however the length of a second is always going to be slightly different between the broadcaster and the local device. Keeping the playback close to the broadcaster time requires the occasional frame correction.

Nick
Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?

Thanks for being so precise in your answers.
spocoeric wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:19 am Early testing of the new beta app seems to have resolved the issue for me. HDHomerun Prime w/CableCard, 2019 ShieldTV Pro. I will report back if anything changes. Thanks Nick!
Everything plays smoothly, even with ticker / banner (on which stutters are very noticeable) ?

thedoomster
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by thedoomster »

I'm testing the new Beta on my old Sony Android TV with a Prime on channels like CNN and CNBC with a constant ticker (which I rarely watch) and all I'm seeing is what I'll call a micro-pause every so often. To me this is perfectly acceptable.

Soapdishbandit
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by Soapdishbandit »

New update (06/21/21) and stuttering still happening sadly. It seems to be worse now? Still about every second or so. Testing using CNBC and CNN ticker.

Tested again with live tv app (beta network tuner) and Plex live TV and it isn't happening.

nickk
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by nickk »

loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick

loopium
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.

Soapdishbandit
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by Soapdishbandit »

loopium wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 am
nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.
My question is why is there zero skip occurring when I use live tv network tuner beta or plex? Or kodi hd homerun plug-in?

Also, I know it's not Android related but I get the same stutters at the same intervals on my Windows PC HD Homerun App, so it's not just related to Android but also windows as well.

Soapdishbandit
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by Soapdishbandit »

loopium wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 am
nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.
My question is why is there zero skip occurring when I use live tv network tuner beta or plex? Or kodi hd homerun plug-in?

Also, I know it's not Android related but I get the same stutters at the same intervals on my Windows PC HD Homerun App, so it's not just related to Android but also windows as well.

loopium
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Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:42 am
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

Soapdishbandit wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:19 am
loopium wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 am
nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.
My question is why is there zero skip occurring when I use live tv network tuner beta or plex? Or kodi hd homerun plug-in?

Also, I know it's not Android related but I get the same stutters at the same intervals on my Windows PC HD Homerun App, so it's not just related to Android but also windows as well.
I guess that Live Channels Network beta tuner works just as the same as VLC or Kodi... It bypasses the HDHR app ?

Soapdishbandit
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:18 pm

Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by Soapdishbandit »

loopium wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:32 am
Soapdishbandit wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:19 am
loopium wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 am

Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.
My question is why is there zero skip occurring when I use live tv network tuner beta or plex? Or kodi hd homerun plug-in?

Also, I know it's not Android related but I get the same stutters at the same intervals on my Windows PC HD Homerun App, so it's not just related to Android but also windows as well.
I guess that Live Channels Network beta tuner works just as the same as VLC or Kodi... It bypasses the HDHR app ?
Yes.

loopium
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Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:42 am
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
For your information nickk, I have tested all the releases of the HDHR app starting from 2019, and the one with less stutters are :

  • 20210227
  • 20210607

All the other releases (20210621 included) are not watchable (stutters every seconds...).

Also, on a friend's iPad (iPadOS), the Channels app works flawlessly...

loopium
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

Any news about this issue... ?

nickk
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by nickk »

We are not able to reproduce a problem. Note that it is normal for a single frame to be be dropped or duplicated to correct timing.

loopium
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

nickk wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:26 pm We are not able to reproduce a problem. Note that it is normal for a single frame to be be dropped or duplicated to correct timing.
Alright, but when it's not watchable it is an issue. It would be silly to sell my HDHR because of a software issue... I understand your not able to reproduce the pb, but what about below :
loopium wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 am
nickk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:00 pm
loopium wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:29 am Got it, it's a matter of seconds. That being said, how does built-in TV tuners handle this difference between the broadcaster second and the tuner one ?
A TV using a built in tuner can update the screen at any arbitrary time (think of it as adjusting the screen refresh rate to match the broadcaster timing).

When using a box the screen refresh rate can only be set to some pre-set rates - usually 50Hz, 59.94Hz, and 60Hz. If both the TV and the box support 120Hz then that may also be an option.

Nick
Ok thanks for your precise explanations.

So now that the issue seems to be identified, what can we do now ? I mean :
  • Can we have on option to toggle off the adjustements between the broadcaster second and the box one ? Such as VLC or Kodi app (despite being out of sync).
  • Or at least a way to decide the frequency of these adjustements (1 sec, 3 sec, 10 sec, a minute...) ?
Because eventually the issue is the same for everyone (Soapdishbandit, thedoomster) even if it bothers me more than other people.

nickk
Silicondust
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by nickk »

loopium wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:37 am Alright, but when it's not watchable it is an issue.
Trying to figure out if we are talking about two different things.

Frame drop or frame duplication is very common in the broadcast from some channels.
For example a lot of The Discovery Network channels are mastered at 24fps and are then broadcast duplicating each frame 2 or 3 times to average 59.94fps.

Need to understand if you are seeing a single duplicated or dropped frame (normal) or a pause/stutter that affects audio or is longer than a single duplicated frame.

Nick

loopium
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Re: HDHR Apps - Android stutter

Post by loopium »

nickk wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:03 am
loopium wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:37 am Alright, but when it's not watchable it is an issue.
Trying to figure out if we are talking about two different things.

Frame drop or frame duplication is very common in the broadcast from some channels.
For example a lot of The Discovery Network channels are mastered at 24fps and are then broadcast duplicating each frame 2 or 3 times to average 59.94fps.

Need to understand if you are seeing a single duplicated or dropped frame (normal) or a pause/stutter that affects audio or is longer than a single duplicated frame.

Nick
I can assure you it's not due to differences between the mastering frequency and the broadcasting frequency. Soccer matches are recorded in 50 Hz and broadcasted at this exact same frequency.

I can't understand why the OTA tuner option in Live Channels app works flawlessly without any stutters, but not the HDHR direct source ? It's the same box = the HDHR, that sends the signal to the Shield. I can send you more phone footage with stutters if it can helps you to find out what's going on.

EDIT : after further testing, pause then resume a few seconds later does not fix the problem, stutters are still there but not at the same intervals.

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