Televes Avant X - potential issues

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
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sdust
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Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

Any issues with program guide when using physical channel remapping by a device like Avant X from Televes?

https://www.televes.com/us/532180-avant ... tolte.html

A problem can occur if matching channels to program guide is based on physical channels. It throws off TiVo.

jasonl
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by jasonl »

The channel guide mapping for ATSC channels is based on virtual channel number and name and the TSID. Physical channel is not used at all.

sdust
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

What about ATSC 3.0? I think there are no virtual channels there, the tuner just adds 100 to the physical channel.

signcarver
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by signcarver »

sdust wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:33 am What about ATSC 3.0? I think there are no virtual channels there, the tuner just adds 100 to the physical channel.
no, it adds 100 to the virtual number not physical

sdust
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

signcarver wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:29 am
sdust wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:33 am What about ATSC 3.0? I think there are no virtual channels there, the tuner just adds 100 to the physical channel.
no, it adds 100 to the virtual number not physical
If this were the case why bother adding 100 and confusing the heck out of everybody?

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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by signcarver »

so one can have both, as the scan will only add a single channel with the same virtual channel number... many people don't have equipment that handles ac4 correctly when they were the same number the ATSC3 channel was the only one added to the scan and they couldn't tune the regular channel... this allows one the choice which channel to choose. Captions/subtitles are another reason one might not want the ATSC3 version of the channel as those haven't always been fully implemented as they are a bit different than regular CC (here in phoenix I have only seen CC work when they had some duplicated testing channels and VLC could actually handle the captions, the app couldn't, I haven't been looking if the subtitle tracks are actually there but it is expected to be subtitles not cc).

Here in phoenix one of the physical channels ATSC3 is 27 (I'll use them as 35 actually does have 35 on it as well as others). The stations it carries are virtual 61.1, 15.1, 10.1, and 45.1... physically for regular atsc (1) those are carried by 15.4, 15.1, 10.3 and 26.3 and for ATSC 3 are 61.2, 61.3, 61.7, and 61.8 (when using program number for subchannel, most everything is done by virtual channel number now... I have even seen TV's pull in the correct program when minor/program/subchannel number changes as long as on the same major number expected in such map).

The HDHomeRun during the scan will add 100 to the virtual number of the ATSC3 channel so those will be listed as 161.1, 115.1, 110.1 and 145.1 and one can still "easily" request the ATSC 1 stations at their regular virtual number.

sdust
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

signcarver wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:30 pm this allows one the choice which channel to choose.
this could have been an option in the lineup.html like favorites - disable atsc3

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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by kyl416 »

sdust wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:02 pm If this were the case why bother adding 100 and confusing the heck out of everybody?
Because many players, including those powered by FFmpeg like Plex, can't handle AC-4 audio, so people still need to the ability to tune to ATSC 1.0 channels. They said they are also working on a way to specifically request the ATSC 3.0 signal on devices that support AC-4, but in the interim adding 100 was the quickest way to enable a choice between ATSC 3.0 and ATSC 1.0 on all viewing applications without requiring 3rd party developers to recode their apps and plugins to pass a new flag to the call if they want to view ATSC 3.0 channels.

Before the fix the ATSC 3.0 version appeared instead of the ATSC 1.0 version, which resulted in people having no audio if they use FFmpeg based platforms like Kodi, VLC, Plex, Emby, along with many smart TVs, network media players and mobile devices that only support AC-4 if the manfucturer licensed it for that specific model and enabled it in the device's firmware.

sdust
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

I just hope this is not the final solution. :cry:

EDIT: The tuner could compare the user agent header against whitelist/blacklist to figure out if the client is atsc3 capable. Add to that a user configurable default and no need for messing with channel numbers.

EDIT2: It might be a good idea to include properly escaped user agent on the tuner status page with the option to disable atsc3.

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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by NedS »

sdust wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:23 pm I just hope this is not the final solution. :cry:

EDIT: The tuner could compare the user agent header against whitelist/blacklist to figure out if the client is atsc3 capable. Add to that a user configurable default and no need for messing with channel numbers.

EDIT2: It might be a good idea to include properly escaped user agent on the tuner status page with the option to disable atsc3.
The 100+ thing is basically quick fix so that both older equipment (with or without the HDHomeRun app) and/or third party apps have a way to select which version without needing to update anything.

Long term we want it to be more intelligent/seamless. Just as an example, maybe have some way for the client (ours or third party) be able to communicate what it will support or prefer, then the HDHomeRun will automatically send it the right version of that channel (when there is an option). Another possible idea might be to just allow manual selection of a station for a given virtual channel, which would also help fix another issue for regional broadcasting (an issue in the EU and other places with lots of bordering content, and conflicting virtual channel numbers).

The goal being that the end user shouldn't need to figure out the version/broadcast each time they want to watch TV, and rather go to a given station/channel number and get the best possible version for their playback device.

sdust
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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by sdust »

NedS wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:06 pmLong term we want it to be more intelligent/seamless. Just as an example, maybe have some way for the client (ours or third party) be able to communicate what it will support or prefer, then the HDHomeRun will automatically send it the right version of that channel (when there is an option).
You get this info from the User Agent header.

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Re: Televes Avant X - potential issues

Post by kyl416 »

Using a user-agent whitelist/blacklist is easier said than done, especially when you're using 3rd party platforms that don't offer device model specific user-agents to indicate which codecs are supported, or when it's a platform that uses HDMI passthru to decode AC-4.

- They won't be able to detect situations when users are using custom compiled versions of Kodi, VLC and ffmpeg that are using the unofficial AC-4 patches since they have the same user agent as the official builds.
- People using DLNA clients on devices that don't have native AC-4 decoding, but can support it via HDMI bitstream passthru to an AC-4 capable sound system or TV.
- Apple would be a mess because of how much variation there is, and is only being made harder with them increasingly locking down what 3rd party apps can do via their APIs, so it might not be possible to detect what codecs the connected TV or sound system supports.
- The Roku would be hard too because every 3rd party "channel" is required to use Roku's built in media player to access streams
- Kodi is also a problem because it's not Kodi making the requests to populate the EPG and channel list, but whatever PVR client you are using (i.e. pvr.hdhomerun, zuki.pvr.hdhomerundvr, pvr.iptvsimple, pvr.hts for tvheadend, etc), and it has no way of detecting if you replaced the bundled copies of libavformat and libavcodec with patched ones for AC-4 support.
- TVheadend would also be an issue since it's basically a server that can populate a channel list from various sources including the HDHomerun and act like a personal virtual cable system, so it wouldn't be able to tell the HDHomeRun when someone is watching on an AC-4 capable viewing device.

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