Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
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RePete222
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Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by RePete222 »

I recently reactivated a legacy dual-tuner HDHR unit, model #103C7032, that I previously had working back in Windows 7 days. After downloading the latest HDHR app, complete with HDHomeRun Setup, I was able to get it working on Windows 10, Mac OS 10.14, and iOS 13.7 on an iPad. Both wired and wireless connections work for PCs (and wireless for the iPad). However, when I launch the HDHR channel/app on my Roku box, I get the message "Unable to find HDHomeRun tuner on local network." Since the Roku is on the same WiFi network as other wireless devices in the house, why would it be the only one to have trouble finding the tuner? What can I check on the Roku box to find out what's different with its WiFi connection vs. that of other devices?

signcarver
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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by signcarver »

That is to be expected... legacy devices can't support http streaming

RePete222
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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by RePete222 »

signcarver wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:20 pm That is to be expected... legacy devices can't support http streaming
That doesn't make sense--the Roku is of much more recent vintage than the HDHR 103C7032. In any case, why would it be reporting that it can't find the tuner in the first place? If it can find it, but can't support it, I would expect some kind of incompatibility message to be displayed, not an "Unable to find" message.

Can someone from SD verify whether or not the 103C7032 is compatible with a Roku Express HD streaming box?

Thanks.

kyl416
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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by kyl416 »

Developing on Roku comes with a lot of limitations because you can only support the streaming protocols that their internal player supports.

These are the only models compatible with the Roku app:
https://info.hdhomerun.com/info/roku#su ... n_products

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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by signcarver »

Again. you have a legacy device... the first hdhomerun to support http streaming was the prime which came after your 3rd gen dual. The prime and expand (essentially a prime without cablecard for dvb-c cable) are the only 3rd gen units that can support http streaming, ota capable units must be 4th gen or later. Also though a prime may work with roku, it isn't supported as roku is a terrible device for tv content and though there are a couple of ota stations that have issue, the decoder in roku frequently won't handle the encoding of cable streams.

RePete222
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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by RePete222 »

OK, so apparently I have an incompatible HDHR unit. I still say that the Roku app should at least be able to find it, determine that it's not supported, and display a message to that effect. The "unable to find" message is highly misleading in this situation, agreed?

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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by foxbat121 »

RePete222 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:01 pm OK, so apparently I have an incompatible HDHR unit.
And incompetent stream device for HDHR. Roku devices are the worst kind among all other streaming devices when it comes to HDHR usage due to its huge limitation of app capability.
Over 90% of the channels that my Prime outputs can't be viewed on Roku (and they are not even DRM channels).

JonathanK
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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by JonathanK »

RePete222 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:54 pm I recently reactivated a legacy dual-tuner HDHR unit, model #103C7032, that I previously had working back in Windows 7 days. After downloading the latest HDHR app, complete with HDHomeRun Setup, I was able to get it working on Windows 10, Mac OS 10.14, and iOS 13.7 on an iPad. Both wired and wireless connections work for PCs (and wireless for the iPad). However, when I launch the HDHR channel/app on my Roku box, I get the message "Unable to find HDHomeRun tuner on local network." Since the Roku is on the same WiFi network as other wireless devices in the house, why would it be the only one to have trouble finding the tuner? What can I check on the Roku box to find out what's different with its WiFi connection vs. that of other devices?
I don't think this is a Roku issue because I don't believe in coincidences.

I have an HDHR4-2US (4th gen dual tuner device) that has been running on an Nvidia Shield (android) device without issue since 2017. Suddenly, on or around March 6, the tuner stopped being recognized by the Android box. I get the same message you get: "Unable to find HDHomeRun tuner on local network."

I thought the tuner was bad but after seeing it recognized by my.hdhomerun and being able to run a channel search successfully, I knew it wasn't the HDHR. After a lot of troubleshooting, I finally connected the HDHR directly to a laptop and everything was fine. No problems.

My guess is that the HDHR app on my android was automatically updated in the background and the new update is causing this issue. What else could it be? It was working fine, I touched nothing and didn't do any updates on the android box.

I put in a trouble ticket. We'll see what happens.

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Re: Legacy dual-tuner unit not visible from Roku box, works on other devices

Post by kyl416 »

In this case it is a Roku issue. They're using an older legacy model that doesn't support the protocols Roku's internal player supports, so the Roku can't even see it. If it was the issue that's affecting some router/switch setups, they would see the same issue on their non-Roku devices too.

Unfortunately Roku simply isn't that good of a platform for reliable live OTA and live cable viewing even for the models that do work with it:
The lack of an internal AC-3 decoder means it's not compatible with TVs that only support PCM via HDMI
Several models shipped without a MPEG2 decoder, and the ones that do have have poorly designed ones that expect perfect streams and crap out when error correction should kick in during unstable reception conditions like windy weather or marginal signals. Those MPEG2 decoders are also not that good at handling sudden bitrate swings, like what happens with OTA stations and cable providers who use stat muxing.
No Digital Cable DRM support, which makes it an unviable option for providers like Cox and FiOS who now have DRM on a bunch of popular cable channels, along with most premium cable channels on other providers
The limited design options prevent them from having a full functioning UI capable of scheduling recordings for DVR users.
There's also the whole AC-4 issue that prevents it from being recommended for the ATSC 3.0 model because, while the newer Roku Ultra models have AC-4 support, it only supports it within a mp4 container and not mpeg-ts, which is what live broadcast streams use.


Roku is also a closed platform, so 3rd party developers are not allowed to bundle their own player, libraries and codecs with their "channels", or offer downloadable packages with extra features enabled that you can sideload like you can on Android and iOS. If Roku was more open and allowed 3rd party developers to bundle their own libraries, they could bundle a network library that supports the protocols the older models use to communicate over a network, along with FFmpeg's libavcodec and libavformat libraries to deal with the lack of an internal AC-3 decoder and the poor builtin MPEG-2 decoder, and bundle a webkit or chromium library to deal with the UI limitations on Roku. Digital Cable DRM will likely never be supported though unless Roku updates their devices to support DTCP-IP.

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