Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
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tghowe
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by tghowe »

I have a nearly identical setup as you... Win7 WMC, HDHR-Prime, Xbox360, etc. The HDHR DVR still has limits, so when the MS guide was abandoned, I began using EPG123 for guide data and it's working well. This allows me to keep my WMC machine running more like an appliance, just set it and forget it.... almost.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

tghowe wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:39 am I have a nearly identical setup as you... Win7 WMC, HDHR-Prime, Xbox360, etc. The HDHR DVR still has limits, so when the MS guide was abandoned, I began using EPG123 for guide data and it's working well. This allows me to keep my WMC machine running more like an appliance, just set it and forget it.... almost.
Win7 WMC + HDHR-Prime + Xbox360 + MS guide was a perfect solution. I actually had upgraded to Win8.1 WMC hoping to get the MS guide until 2023 and was very disappointed when it was abandoned.

I considered taking the EPG123 path but ultimately decided it was not a long-term solution and went for the SERVIO. I must say that the SERVIO is totally a set-and-forget appliance. I update its firmware once in a while but otherwise it runs untouched for months at the time. And upgrading from Xbox 360 to Xbox One is nice thanks to the integrated Blu-Ray player and better support for streaming apps (HBOmax, Disney+, etc).

The weak part remains the HDHomeRun UI but it has been (very) slowly getting better and I hope that the sales from the new 4K OTA tuner will bring enough cash so that SD can invest further in its development.

nickk
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by nickk »

This is the remote I am testing - see picture.

Buttons from the top...

The power button triggers sleep mode / resume at the OS level. Not visible to apps.
The Visualization, Print, Radio, Music, Pictures, and Videos buttons do not trigger key events or media control events. Nothing happens - our app isn't notified of the button press.
The DVD menu, Recorded TV, Guide, Live TV, Aspect, Slide Show, and More Info buttons - same, our app isn't notified of the button press.
The green WMC button - same, our app isn't notified of the button press.

Up/Down/Left/Right/OK/Back buttons work in the HDHomeRun app.
Volume Up/Down/Mute buttons work in the HDHomeRun app.
Channel Up/Down buttons work in the HDHomeRun app.
FF/RW/Play/Pause/Stop buttons work in the HDHomeRun app.
Previous Track/Next Track buttons work in the HDHomeRun app, mapped to +/-10 minute seek.
The Record button works but there is no UI reaction to indicate it worked.

The Eject button doesn't trigger a key event of media control event - our app isn't notified of the button press.

The Number keys, Star, Hash, Clear, and Enter keys all work in the HDHomeRun app.
There is no "." button on the remote for entering ATSC channel numbers.

UI changes:
1) We updated the UI today to treat 15*3 the same as 15.3 so you can enter a full ATSC channel number with this remote. This feature will go live overnight.
2) We will fix the record action to provide UI feedback to show what it is doing.

Conclusion - the HDHomeRun app already supports every button on this HP WMC remote where the app is informed of the button press. This includes all media controls.

Nick
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gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm The power button triggers sleep mode / resume at the OS level. Not visible to apps.
We agree that power button triggers sleep mode / resume at the OS level. The problem is that the app does not handle nicely Windows going to sleep and resuming. It always complains about something upon resuming, for example:

Image
Last edited by gab on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm Channel Up/Down buttons work in the HDHomeRun app.
It does not quite "work" for me. It pops up the mini control bar in the top left corner and takes some time (possibly as long as one second) to unreliably change the channel. It appears that it might be worse if the next or previous channel is no at a contiguous position form the current channel. Note that the Kodi app from the Windows 10 store does not have this issue, so the issue is not tuner-related.

Image

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm
The [...] Clear [...] work[s] in the HDHomeRun app.
Clear does not work as expected. According to the documentation of the MCE remote, Clear, should delete the last character entered.

However, the app currently handles it similarly to the "Back" button. Please change the behavior so that pressing the button deletes the last character entered instead of escaping the current focus. I get that it internally triggers VK_ESCAPE but nonetheless it should be handled as a backspace.

GGRussell
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by GGRussell »

I have been using this remote control since kickstarter. Never use Channel up/down, but it does work for me when I tried it. The mini bar does pop up , but the channel changes.
Last edited by GGRussell on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nickk
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by nickk »

gab wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:07 pm Clear does not work as expected. According to the documentation of the MCE remote, Clear, should delete the last character entered.

However, the app currently handles it similarly to the "Back" button. Please change the behavior so that pressing the button deletes the last character entered instead of escaping the current focus. I get that it internally triggers VK_ESCAPE but nonetheless it should be handled as a backspace.
I looked into that during testing - the problem is that the Clear button is sent as a keyboard ESC button. Clearing the OSD when the user presses ESC is correct handling. The problem is the OS sending an ESC key code when the Clear button is pressed.

Nick

Edit - fixed button name.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm
The Visualization, Print, Radio, Music, Pictures, and Videos buttons do not trigger key events or media control events. Nothing happens - our app isn't notified of the button press.
The DVD menu, Recorded TV, Guide, Live TV, Aspect, Slide Show, and More Info buttons - same, our app isn't notified of the button press.
OK, so why not follow @Garyr's suggestion? Add support for keys such as F13 to F24 in the app to do equivalent things to what Recorded TV, Guide, Live TV do in WMC and let us edit the Windows 10 registry so that the driver for the MCE remote sends you F13 to F24. Users of programmable remotes could directly send F13..F24 and not even have to touch the registry.

Best offer an utility for download that would do the mapping automatically.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm UI changes:
1) We updated the UI today to treat 15*3 the same as 15.3 so you can enter a full ATSC channel number with this remote. This feature will go live overnight.
2) We will fix the record action to provide UI feedback to show what it is doing.
That is a step in the right direction. Thanks.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

GGRussell wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:11 pm I have been using this remote control since kickstarter. Never use Channel up/down, but it does work for me when I tried it. The mini bar does pop up , but the channel changes.
Thanks for the feedback. Imho the mini-bar should not pop up, and the channel change should be quick. For me it takes too long. So long that sometimes it seems it does not change the channel. Or does not go to the channel that it should go to.

Again, the Kodi apps from the Windows 10 Store works fine, so I think it is fair to blame the UI.

I think that WM_APPCOMMAND needs to be filtered so the app does not show the mini bar whenever the message is received.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:13 pm
gab wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:07 pm Clear does not work as expected. According to the documentation of the MCE remote, Clear, should delete the last character entered.

However, the app currently handles it similarly to the "Back" button. Please change the behavior so that pressing the button deletes the last character entered instead of escaping the current focus. I get that it internally triggers VK_ESCAPE but nonetheless it should be handled as a backspace.
I looked into that during testing - the problem is that the Clear button is sent as a keyboard ESC button. Clearing the OSD when the user presses ESC is correct handling. The problem is the OS sending an ESC key code when the Clear button is pressed.

Nick

Edit - fixed button name.
I agree that the fact that the Clear button sends VK_ESCAPE is strange and creates a problem. But somehow, even if the logic is questionable, WMC internally handles VK_ESCAPE as if it were a backspace, at least when pressed when the cursor is in an input field. Can't you override the default behavior when you receive VK_ESCAPE while the user is typing something in an input field?

Keep in mind that the Back button sends VK_BROWSER_BACK, which is what in WMC is handled like an escape.

See page 14 of this HP doc for reference: http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bph07861.pdf

kyl416
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by kyl416 »

You might be better off programming the keys to the official Windows Media Center keyboard shortcuts instead of arbitrarily assigning the F13-F24 keys. Kodi is programmed to respond to the same shortcuts:

Green Button = Windows logo + Alt + Enter
Info/Details = Ctrl + D
Live TV = Ctrl + T
Recorded TV = Ctrl + O
Guide = Ctrl + G
DVD Menu = Ctrl + Shift + M
My TV = Ctrl + Shift + T
My Videos = Ctrl + E
My Music = Ctrl + M
My Pictures = Ctrl + I
DVD Audio/SAP = Ctrl + Shift + A
Subtitles/CC = Ctrl + U
Zoom/Aspect Ratio = Ctrl + Shift + Z

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

gab wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:53 pm
nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm The power button triggers sleep mode / resume at the OS level. Not visible to apps.
We agree that power button triggers sleep mode / resume at the OS level. The problem is that the app does not handle nicely Windows going to sleep and resuming. It always complains about something upon resuming, for example [...]
Also, note that Win32 apps receive WM_POWERBROADCAST (with parameter PBT_APMSUSPEND when suspending with the Sleep button, and PBT_APMRESUMEAUTOMATIC followed by PBT_APMRESUMESUSPEND when waking up via the same button) so there is probably an opportunity to do some special handling of the situation within the app.

Maybe WM_TIMECHANGE and WM_DEVICECHANGE are also important to monitor?

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

kyl416 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:51 pm You might be better off programming the keys to the official Windows Media Center keyboard shortcuts instead of arbitrarily assigning the F13-F24 keys. Kodi is programmed to respond to the same shortcuts:

Green Button = Windows logo + Alt + Enter
Info/Details = Ctrl + D
Live TV = Ctrl + T
Recorded TV = Ctrl + O
Guide = Ctrl + G
DVD Menu = Ctrl + Shift + M
My TV = Ctrl + Shift + T
My Videos = Ctrl + E
My Music = Ctrl + M
My Pictures = Ctrl + I
DVD Audio/SAP = Ctrl + Shift + A
Subtitles/CC = Ctrl + U
Zoom/Aspect Ratio = Ctrl + Shift + Z
Great input! Thanks again for your contribution.

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