Subtitles

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
atelling
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Subtitles

Post by atelling » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:15 am

I am a little hard of hearing and am able to turn on subtitles on my TV, but these do not appear to work through HDHR. Can anyone advise how to get these to appear?
Thanks

GGRussell
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Re: Subtitles

Post by GGRussell » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:05 am

When watching live TV, hit a button on your device remote and the on screen display should pop up. Go left to CC and click the OK button.

signcarver
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Re: Subtitles

Post by signcarver » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:10 am

That is for "CC" many who use the word subtitles are referring to dvb subtitles that the software doesn't support yet.

GGRussell
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Re: Subtitles

Post by GGRussell » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 am

Must be from another country? To me subtitles and CC are the same thing.

ACraigo
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Re: Subtitles

Post by ACraigo » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:22 am

GGRussell wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 am
Must be from another country? To me subtitles and CC are the same thing.
I'm from WV and it is rare that we'd need English Subtitles for English audio tracks (maybe for a show shot in California), but for 'we-uns' we hit the button that says "CC" and words start showing up on the bottom of the screen. Not all of us can read, but those that can help those that can't.

lol

rpcameron
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Re: Subtitles

Post by rpcameron » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:00 am

GGRussell wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 am
Must be from another country? To me subtitles and CC are the same thing.
CC are closed captions and are encoded in the video data stream itself. Subtitles are DVB subtitles, which are transmitted as a separate stream alongside the video and different audio streams.

They are two different technologies which require completely different methods to support/display.

ACraigo
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Re: Subtitles

Post by ACraigo » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 am

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:00 am
GGRussell wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 am
Must be from another country? To me subtitles and CC are the same thing.
CC are closed captions and are encoded in the video data stream itself. Subtitles are DVB subtitles, which are transmitted as a separate stream alongside the video and different audio streams.

They are two different technologies which require completely different methods to support/display.
Every recording I make - PTV/OTA - has subs in the video stream. If I don't convert the video stream they are still there to be displayed by my HDHR app/Channels app/Plex app. If I use MCEBuddy to convert a stream, no amount of setting tweeks ever recovers them.

So... I'm not sure what or how the OP is watching his stuff, but if he was watching his stuff with an HDHR app right out of the storage bin those subs/CCs should work.

I can't imagine using my HDHR app to watch my blu ray rip of Dead Pool 2 - so I really don't care if it can't display sidecar sub files, do I?

signcarver
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Re: Subtitles

Post by signcarver » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:53 am

ACraigo wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 am
but if he was watching his stuff with an HDHR app right out of the storage bin those subs/CCs should work.
Only if "CC" as actual "subtitles" won't work... OP did not give location, for most of the world, other than US/Canada, subtitles do not work with SD's apps (though some other countries may have both available)... yes they are in the stream and even if recorded with the DVR, playing it back with something else will still have those subtitles... I do realize that to many "CC" and subtitles are one in the same, and they may be for the OP as well which is why I brought such up as without knowing the source of the content (which includes country and/or exact tuner model to let one know if it is DVB-T/T2, DVB-C, ATSC, etc.)

Generally one hears the term Closed Captions or just captions/captioning in the US, while most that use the word subtitle are are elsewhere, unless one is talking about a program off a dvd or bluray, though many today are used to also using the term subtitle since that is what the "discs" calls them (and I have had both available off of discs, where CC I can control display from the TV remote while subtitles I have to tell the player to put them on or off).

rpcameron
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Re: Subtitles

Post by rpcameron » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:56 am

ACraigo wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:19 am
rpcameron wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:00 am
GGRussell wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 am
Must be from another country? To me subtitles and CC are the same thing.
CC are closed captions and are encoded in the video data stream itself. Subtitles are DVB subtitles, which are transmitted as a separate stream alongside the video and different audio streams.

They are two different technologies which require completely different methods to support/display.
Every recording I make - PTV/OTA - has subs in the video stream. If I don't convert the video stream they are still there to be displayed by my HDHR app/Channels app/Plex app. If I use MCEBuddy to convert a stream, no amount of setting tweeks ever recovers them.

So... I'm not sure what or how the OP is watching his stuff, but if he was watching his stuff with an HDHR app right out of the storage bin those subs/CCs should work.

I can't imagine using my HDHR app to watch my blu ray rip of Dead Pool 2 - so I really don't care if it can't display sidecar sub files, do I?
Closed captions in the video stream can be preserved with conversion, but it is often not the default. Ffmpeg has experimental support for extracting closed caption data and exporting it as a subrip-format file (SRT). Gstreamer also has experimental support for this. Both CCExtractor and ComSkip parse the closed caption data and output to plain text format. There is also the libzvbi library (which is the basis of ffmpeg's closed caption support, as well as MythTV's).

As long as you parse/extract the closed captions before converting the video stream, they can be preserved and reintegrated with the video file as a separate text stream (as one finds in BluRays, DVB, and frequently with ripped movies for your personal media collection for use with Plex, Kodi, etc.).

nickk
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Re: Subtitles

Post by nickk » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:36 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:56 am
Closed captions in the video stream can be preserved with conversion, but it is often not the default. Ffmpeg has experimental support for extracting closed caption data and exporting it as a subrip-format file (SRT). Gstreamer also has experimental support for this. Both CCExtractor and ComSkip parse the closed caption data and output to plain text format. There is also the libzvbi library (which is the basis of ffmpeg's closed caption support, as well as MythTV's).

As long as you parse/extract the closed captions before converting the video stream, they can be preserved and reintegrated with the video file as a separate text stream (as one finds in BluRays, DVB, and frequently with ripped movies for your personal media collection for use with Plex, Kodi, etc.).
The raw CEA-608 CC data needs to be preserved during transcode... pretty sure ffmpeg does this.

CEA-608 CC data can't reliably be converted to text - it needs to be rendered to a frame buffer (which the HDHomeRun apps do).

Nick

jasonl
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Re: Subtitles

Post by jasonl » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:43 pm

nickk wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:36 pm
rpcameron wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:56 am
Closed captions in the video stream can be preserved with conversion, but it is often not the default. Ffmpeg has experimental support for extracting closed caption data and exporting it as a subrip-format file (SRT). Gstreamer also has experimental support for this. Both CCExtractor and ComSkip parse the closed caption data and output to plain text format. There is also the libzvbi library (which is the basis of ffmpeg's closed caption support, as well as MythTV's).

As long as you parse/extract the closed captions before converting the video stream, they can be preserved and reintegrated with the video file as a separate text stream (as one finds in BluRays, DVB, and frequently with ripped movies for your personal media collection for use with Plex, Kodi, etc.).
The raw CEA-608 CC data needs to be preserved during transcode... pretty sure ffmpeg does this.

CEA-608 CC data can't reliably be converted to text - it needs to be rendered to a frame buffer (which the HDHomeRun apps do).

Nick
This is backwards. EIA/CEA-608 captions are ASCII-ish data that can easily be converted to text, although some of the special formatting may or may not be preserved depending on what's doing the converting and what they're converted to. 608 captions are limited to only a handful of languages, which means they're generally only usable in countries that use Latin alphabets.

DVB subtitles are bitmapped (essentially, pictures of the characters), which means that they can be used to convey any alphabet, including ones with non-Latin characters like Cyrillic and Arabic. The downsides of DVB subtitles are that they only way to get a text representation is to use OCR on those bitmaps and hope it comes out right on the other end, and that they require significantly more bandwidth than text-based captions.

rpcameron
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Re: Subtitles

Post by rpcameron » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:54 pm

jasonl wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:43 pm
nickk wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:36 pm
rpcameron wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:56 am
Closed captions in the video stream can be preserved with conversion, but it is often not the default. Ffmpeg has experimental support for extracting closed caption data and exporting it as a subrip-format file (SRT). Gstreamer also has experimental support for this. Both CCExtractor and ComSkip parse the closed caption data and output to plain text format. There is also the libzvbi library (which is the basis of ffmpeg's closed caption support, as well as MythTV's).

As long as you parse/extract the closed captions before converting the video stream, they can be preserved and reintegrated with the video file as a separate text stream (as one finds in BluRays, DVB, and frequently with ripped movies for your personal media collection for use with Plex, Kodi, etc.).
The raw CEA-608 CC data needs to be preserved during transcode... pretty sure ffmpeg does this.

CEA-608 CC data can't reliably be converted to text - it needs to be rendered to a frame buffer (which the HDHomeRun apps do).

Nick
This is backwards. EIA/CEA-608 captions are ASCII-ish data that can easily be converted to text, although some of the special formatting may or may not be preserved depending on what's doing the converting and what they're converted to. 608 captions are limited to only a handful of languages, which means they're generally only usable in countries that use Latin alphabets.

DVB subtitles are bitmapped (essentially, pictures of the characters), which means that they can be used to convey any alphabet, including ones with non-Latin characters like Cyrillic and Arabic. The downsides of DVB subtitles are that they only way to get a text representation is to use OCR on those bitmaps and hope it comes out right on the other end, and that they require significantly more bandwidth than text-based captions.
Not exactly. Closed captions (CEA-608/708) can include positioning information about where on the screen the text should be displayed. (This is often used to display spoken parts near the character speaking, especially for back-and-forth dialogue.) And IIRC, the standards also allow for character composition, or for text to be "typed" or progressly display, as well. While they can easily be converted into straight text, some of the display might be compromised.

With regards to DVB subtitles: while the standard is bitmapped (like DVD subtitles), they can also optionally include a straight teletype text component in the subtitle stream in addition to the bitmapped subtitles. This additional teletype text can be easily extracted in the same way that the text from closed captions can be done.

nickk
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Re: Subtitles

Post by nickk » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:28 pm

The CEA-608 protocol can put characters anywhere on the screen, writing them in any order (jumping around), and and overwrite characters it has already placed. One of the modes is double-buffered off-screen - normally it is used for rendering the next update but it can also be used to send information that isn't displayed.

If you take the stream of characters and it will usually be human readable text, but you can't reliably convert CES-608 to text.

nickk
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Re: Subtitles

Post by nickk » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:31 pm

DVB subtitle support is coming to the HDHomRun apps. All the image data is being generated but it needs the new UI update.

Nick

arid
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Re: Subtitles

Post by arid » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:56 pm

I tried to switch CC to ON (Subtitles : on) in Sydney, Australia but the subtitle does not appear on all channels.
Is CC feature available in Australia ? If not, are there any workarounds ?

Thanks and regards,
Ari

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