Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
dcalder
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Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby dcalder » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:14 pm

Homerun HDHR3-CC on Win 10 system.

Over the past week, all the channels on my cable TV supplier became DRM. PBS, CSPAN, all local broadcast and even public access. I called my cable company and they said the broadcasters had set the feed to DRM and I had to take it up with them individually. It was odd that they said the settings were done by individual broadcasters, but they all did it within a week of each other (literally a dozen or so separately owned stations). There had to be some central trigger for this that they all followed. To much of a coincidence. My cable provider speculated that there was some kind of regulation that might have expired. Very suspicious that my cable provider says they have nothing to do with this and everything happened in such a coordinated fashion.

My question to the forum is. Do I have any recourse? I thought there was a rule that local broadcast stations, at least, could not be encrypted. If so, how would I confront the individual stations to get them to change this?

So, with every single channel set for DRM now, I cannot do any recording.

Since I'm in a broadcast signal shadow, I can't even hook up an OTA (over the air) antenna. I only get two spanish language stations and I'm within 20 miles of downtown San Francisco. My house originally had a 30 ft tower above the roof and even then, couldn't receive a decent signal.

The Homerun cable card system is working fine for watching DRM stations, and I can even pause the show and buffer enough to skip commercials (thank goodness), but I'm really going to miss recording my late night shows and watching TV when I want to, not by broadcast time. Seems I'm too old to stay up past 9PM these days.

I can use TV Everywhere for a lot of these shows, but of course I can't skip through segments or commercials. I'm considering SD Premium TV, but by the time I keep local channels with my cable TV company and increase the data cap on my service, I'm going to be paying close my current configuration. I also lose TV Everywhere for basic and expanded basic channels when I travel.

Any advice would be appreciated.

foxbat121
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby foxbat121 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:25 pm

Win7 WMC is your only alternative.

NoReDist
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby NoReDist » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:30 pm

You cableco is feeding you some bs. The DRM situation you're in is not a "setting" by the broadcasters. Maybe it is "set" in their recently renewed contracts with whomever your provider is, and your provider just flipped on CCI across the board. You won't get anywhere talking to the Cable parents.

I won't touch the legal arguments about the DRM; I argue with that a lot of my week at work. But passing the buck and saying "the content providers did it," is inaccurate. Sorry for your change :(

GetMatt
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby GetMatt » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:31 pm

I would call them again and talk to someone else. In most cases local affiliate stations of OTA broadcasters have to be copy-freely (non-DRM).

dcalder
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Followup 1: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby dcalder » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:50 pm

Good advice from the forum. Here is the latest. I followed up with a couple of my local broadcast channels and received the following (emphasis mine):

"I am sorry that you have been experiencing trouble recording our programming via your DVR. We do not incorporate any DRM, and our programs are fully in-the-clear. To be sure, I have recorded some of our stream via over-the-air, and it is not copy protected. This is the same source which feeds various cable service providers." (from the station Broadcast Operations Manager)

Clearly this conflicts with what my cable provider told me, but it make much more sense since the DRM CCI application happened across multiple channels at the same time.

To review, here is what my cable tv provider said:

"I checked into this and the issue is not with (provider) but the local broadcasters as The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has approved a new standard for over-the-air TV broadcasts. Local broadcasters are able to lock down content with digital rights management (DRM). I am sorry but it is not something that we are doing but the broadcasters themselves." (From cable provider tech support)

So my next step is back to my cable TV provider to see what they now say. Ultimately I hope they will see the light and release DRM from all the Clear QAM feeds they receive.

Dave

GetMatt
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Re: Followup 1: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby GetMatt » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:20 pm

Good advice from the forum. Here is the latest. I followed up with a couple of my local broadcast channels and received the following (emphasis mine):

"I am sorry that you have been experiencing trouble recording our programming via your DVR. We do not incorporate any DRM, and our programs are fully in-the-clear. To be sure, I have recorded some of our stream via over-the-air, and it is not copy protected. This is the same source which feeds various cable service providers." (from the station Broadcast Operations Manager)

Clearly this conflicts with what my cable provider told me, but it make much more sense since the DRM CCI application happened across multiple channels at the same time.

To review, here is what my cable tv provider said:

"I checked into this and the issue is not with (provider) but the local broadcasters as The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has approved a new standard for over-the-air TV broadcasts. Local broadcasters are able to lock down content with digital rights management (DRM). I am sorry but it is not something that we are doing but the broadcasters themselves." (From cable provider tech support)

So my next step is back to my cable TV provider to see what they now say. Ultimately I hope they will see the light and release DRM from all the Clear QAM feeds they receive.

Dave
Sounds like they are referring to the ATSC 3.0 standard which no one is using yet.

Neptunetides1983
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Re: Followup 1: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby Neptunetides1983 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:32 am

Good advice from the forum. Here is the latest. I followed up with a couple of my local broadcast channels and received the following (emphasis mine):

"I am sorry that you have been experiencing trouble recording our programming via your DVR. We do not incorporate any DRM, and our programs are fully in-the-clear. To be sure, I have recorded some of our stream via over-the-air, and it is not copy protected. This is the same source which feeds various cable service providers." (from the station Broadcast Operations Manager)

Clearly this conflicts with what my cable provider told me, but it make much more sense since the DRM CCI application happened across multiple channels at the same time.

To review, here is what my cable tv provider said:

"I checked into this and the issue is not with (provider) but the local broadcasters as The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has approved a new standard for over-the-air TV broadcasts. Local broadcasters are able to lock down content with digital rights management (DRM). I am sorry but it is not something that we are doing but the broadcasters themselves." (From cable provider tech support)

So my next step is back to my cable TV provider to see what they now say. Ultimately I hope they will see the light and release DRM from all the Clear QAM feeds they receive.

Dave
Who is your provider? I checked with a relative in California who has Comcast, (thought it was Spectrum), with Prime and no changes.

jseymour
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Re: Followup 1: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby jseymour » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:16 pm

So my next step is back to my cable TV provider to see what they now say. Ultimately I hope they will see the light and release DRM from all the Clear QAM feeds they receive.
Good luck with that. My guess is they're trying to force people like you to rent their expensive DVRs and otherwise limit your access to what they want you to access, not what you want to access.

We can probably expect increasing levels of such underhanded behaviour as more and more people cut the cord.

dcalder
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby dcalder » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:31 pm

Yes, I'm feeling quite strong-armed. $20 a month to get my DRM recording back. Ugh

I'm holding off saying who the carrier is because I do have a tech support manager that actually understands what I'm talking about and is willing to escalate the issue. If I get a successful resolution, I'll compliment them openly, if not, I'll mentioned that we can add another cable TV provider that essentially stopped customer from buying their own equipment for use on their service.

This is reminiscent of the Carterfone Decision when ATT had restricted telephone equipment to only ATT supplied devices. I doubt the cable industry has left themselves vulnerable to this exposure with the regulatory capture they appear to have.

jasonl
Silicondust
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby jasonl » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:13 pm

Federal regulations are quite clear that broadcast channels cannot be copy protected by cable providers. Whatever flimsy excuse the provider wants to offer, like they're just passing it on from the station, doesn't matter, because federal regulations say they can't do it. I also don't buy that "we're just passing it on" thing in the first place, because every provider that does this says the same thing, and they all suddenly figure out a way to not pass it on when confronted with reality. Unfortunately an FCC complaint is probably not going to do much at the moment with the government shut down, but it remains a possibility in the future.

Si14
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby Si14 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:47 am

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handydadtv
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby handydadtv » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:19 pm

But really, what's the point of expending all that energy to persuade your cable company to remove DRM on your broadcast channels? You're still screwed on the hundreds of cable channels that you pay for. Your DVR (and HDHR) is worthless because I doubt you're willing to go back to the stone age. Time to look for an alternative solution. ****?

handydadtv
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby handydadtv » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:22 pm

Wow. The forum deletes references to alternative solutions, such as the four-letter one that begins with a T and ends with an O.

I'm a newbie here, but the more I learn about this product/company, the less I like it. It looks good on paper. But reality is a whole different animal.

Si14
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby Si14 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:57 pm

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scyto
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby scyto » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:53 pm

Wow. The forum deletes references to alternative solutions, such as the four-letter one that begins with a T and ends with an O.

I'm a newbie here, but the more I learn about this product/company, the less I like it. It looks good on paper. But reality is a whole different animal.
I have been using that solution that cannot be named (I have even beta tested a few things) for over 2 years waiting for DVR protected channel support, so glad I did, I am still patiently waiting and rooting for SD to succeed.


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