DVR recordings corrupted

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
humblepie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby humblepie » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:11 pm

The ct series nics are older and may be a little hit or miss. I don't use them because there are no drivers for windows 10 for it. I have had good luck with i350 and x540 nics. I think a i210 should be good also. Just don't use an old pci nic. Please note, I have a lot of data going through my nics as I use my server for many things including quite a few security cameras. In any event let me know how it goes.
So unfortunate... I bought them because of the reviews on reliability and stability...but I am running Win 10. If these don't work out I'll return them and look for something that can work with Win 10. Not ideal but this will be the last thing I'll try before going back to a couple TiVOs that can do the heaving recording lifting and I can use KMTTG to pull the recordings off.

I think the part that is the most frustrating is that, overall, my network is very performance-based. I use a few enterprise HW components and all my house is wired for CAT-6. My HUBs (and major networking components) are pro-consumer (Ubiquiti) and my inter-household traffic is extremely fast. Swapping the NICs would be (one of) the last networking components I can think to upgrade. Why this is having as many hiccups as it does, puzzles me a bit as I would think more folks would hit this same issue. That said, my household has a very significant number of concurrent connections which make me wonder if my router is underperforming.

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:46 am

I know exactly what you are talking about for the pro-sumer networking. I was running a 8 port router running dd-wrt for quite some time. I recently upgraded to a home build (12 port plus mobo) running pfsense. I have had good experiences with the nics below

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G0 ... UTF8&psc=1

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0077 ... UTF8&psc=1

Also, with modern intel nics, you can run a diagnostic on the cable. I would recommend you do this.

The reason there are so many hiccups with nics these days is money. For me, intel nics last abotut a year, realtek a few months. Why would they make them last longer when they can keep selling an inferior product and make money. The only nics that I find last is the one in my prime. I don't know where silicondust gets them but they are great.

I can give you the specs for the pfsense box that I use if you want.

humblepie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby humblepie » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:56 pm

Thanks @techpro2004! I'm still testing this out so not quite sure what direction I'll go just yet. Unfortunately, my testing was heavily skewed this weekend/week as I took the opportunity of opening the server to change some things around a bit and shift some data, scripts, etc. Additionally, Comcast was out to the house and had to replace our cable line from the street to the house due to low signal strength on the high frequencies. All of that has been completed so I re-ran some tests yesterday/last night. Here's what I found...

I'm not sure if the standalone card made a difference for this particular issue but it has made a dramatic difference in day-to-day networking. Unfortunately, I am still seeing the timeouts on almost every recording. Short recordings (<15min) often do not have any timeouts but every recording that is about 30min+ does show timeouts making the resulting video unwatchable. Sadly, this is very consistent.

Unfortunately, I'm just going to spend a little more time on this before I switch over to using a TiVo. As a quick test, I dropped an old TiVo in the closet and set it to record the same show the HDHomerun was recording. I then used KMTTG to pull the show off of the device and compared the resulting recordings. The HDHomerun file started off fine but then became unwatchable while the TiVo recording was fine throughout.

At this point, I am pretty close to giving up on this device except to use for live TV streaming. I, honestly, can't figure out why this is so problematic. I have some additional tests to run but am starting to consider that the HDHomerun Prime device may be a possible suspect. Unfortunately, I am not sure how to prove that is/is not the case...

jasonl
Silicondust
Posts: 11228
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby jasonl » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:45 pm

Have you adjusted the network settings in the first post of the network packet loss post? The throttling setting on Windows does cause problems, even with a good network card.

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:15 pm

I like jasonl`s suggestion. I also would recommend checking your ethernet cables and running a channel scan seeing as you have a new drop. In addition try disabling your motherboard`s nic in the bios as sometimes it can interfere even if you are not using it. Is the tivo hooked up to the same coax splitter as your prime? If not, try bypassing it. In any event, please post the results of the test that jasonl suggested now that you have the new nic. I would leave it running for a while.

edit: I just re-read the thread. Try shutting down all vpn software on your lan both server and client.

humblepie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby humblepie » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:22 pm

Thanks all. I had previously done the various settings in the referenced post but ran into an issue yesterday while tweaking/testing the settings. When I forced the speed to 1Gbps full duplex to test, I knocked my PC off the network and since I VPN in from work, etc., I was not able to continue. I resolved that last night and am back to more testing today. At this point I am just waiting for two recordings to complete so I can review the logs. To test this without VPN interference, I disabled my VPNs and now am double-jumping via Remote Desktop from another PC on the network. When doing this I simply make a change, setup a future recording and disconnect until after the recording should have completed in order to minimize any possible background network interference.

As for the cables, I can check them but I'm not sure that would be the issue. I have tested these about 6 mo. ago before switching my servers around and they performed without issue. They are CAT-6 shielded cables in 1' and 6' lengths directly connected to the router (I also had previously tested them connected directly to the EdgeSwitch). As for the MoBo NIC, it was disabled in Windows but not the BIOS, so I'll try that tonight.

@techpro2004 - concerning the channel scan, I don't think I would need to do this as the server and HD Prime are hardwired to the same router and I don't have any WiFi device in that PC...or are you recommending a different type of test?

As for the TiVo, it is now on a coax splitter but that is only recently. I was having the issue before I introduced the splitter and TiVo. For reference I am using the below shielded, low-loss splitter and cables (2' lengths):
Splitter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017T9KF1S
Coax Cables: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JJZ6ITY

I'll repost once I can review the logs/recordings. Thanks again all for the continued feedback. It's much appreciated.

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:34 pm

Thanks for the info. The channel scan is run from the channel lineup menu on your prime's web page. It has nothing to do with your lan. It detects changes in your cable tv signal (coax) When they ran the new drop due to signal issues, you probably gained some channels It also probably cut back on interference in your cable line. Whenever there is a major change to your service, it is always a good idea to run a channel scan. I run it whenever there is a new firmware update although this might be excessive. When scanning, keep an eye on your signal strength and quality. The majority of your channels should not go below 90% (tuner status ----> tuner 0) (keep refreshing the webpage)

The fact that when you switched to 1gbps full duplex it knocked you off tells me that the above might not help although I recommend you try it anyway. This means that you are having other networking issues. I experienced a similar thing recently after switching my router. Apparently, I keep my server in the basement and my router is 3 stories up. It turned out to be a issue with the output power on my new router. it was too weak for such a long run even though the previous one worked fine. I added 2 netgear gs105 switches in the middle of the run and it fixed it. How long is your run on the longest cable involved. I would also recommend bypassing every switch and ethernet cable one at a time until you get 1gbps full duplex working. Something tells me that these 2 issues are related.

Running your server in 100 mbps mode with other services running could easily overload your nic and cause the issues that you are seeing.

jcmaedl
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:52 am

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby jcmaedl » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:56 pm

It seems a little crazy to have to screw around with a network so much to get one piece of hardware to function properly. The stuff suggested here is entirely rewiring and reconfiguring a functional and well implemented home network environment. 30 foot runs causing failures? The ethernet standard supports up to 300 feet between active devices. No device could be certified to comply if it couldn't handle 30 feet, especially if it is a "prosumer" device. I would look to environment, perhaps proximity to AC wiring or other EM or RF source that UTP is susceptible to.

While there certainly are some performance differences between NIC brands, for this application talking about that is practically meaningless. Even basic cards have MTBF of hundreds of thousands of hours, some are in the millions. If they're failing so much probably more due to environmental factors like power supply or ventilation inadequacy. Anyway, the normal consumer will be using whatever is built into their PC.

I love SD and HDHR but really if these kind of adjustments are necessary to make it work then it might be time for them to reconsider the way in which their product implementation interacts with networks. I realize DVR portion is still in development but the approach of adjusting environment (and in this case extreme adjustments) to meet product functionality is backwards. The goal should be functionality in an LCD environment.

It is also worth noting that this discussion is well beyond what the average consumer would even begin to understand or want to have to deal with. For them it just wouldn't work.

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:27 pm

Where do you see 30 ft runs? The 300 ft standard is very dependent on the transmit power of the nic and thus is not a precise science. I have found by personal experience that the brand/model of a nic is very important and some are better quality than others. I have also found that they do go bad and regularly. The op's network was clearly not functional as it had hardware that could support gigabit mode but it clearly was not achieving those speeds.

Nickk, this is a old discussion and I recommend that you lock it.

jcmaedl
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:52 am

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby jcmaedl » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:10 pm

.3 stories. 30ish feet. Of course 300 is the theoretical max, and of course it depends on transmit power. But is it really likely that today's devices transmit on inadequate power and those when the standard was invented 30 odd years ago did? Granted we're going a lot faster now so that makes it trickier. But it stands to reason it's still possible, and more than likely the engineers who designed it thought of conditions, etc. And tested for mean quality over distance which is probably why they picked a nice round number of 100 m.

Again, all of it is a possibility but rare, especially in a home network environment where stress is relatively low. By the nature of CSMA/CD adapter speed is rarely possible on any network, and the cause of his pc not being able to connect at FD could be any number of things not related to hardware or failure of the network itself.

I've been in networking and IT for over 20 years, including many data intensive server deployments. I can count on one hand the number of times that hardware failure not due to some kind of environmental/physical condition is responsible. Sounds like your mileage has varied significantly from that. Bad luck?

Regardless of all this, your experience vs. mine, etc. the point stands that considering this many components to get it to work is not practical in any way and really points to the SD HW/implementation as being the likely source of the problem, unless how he is trying to configure it is unsupported. In which case that's the answer. He even tried a bunch of the suggestions with no success, which is further evidence. The one suggestion that wasn't tried is to make a tiny network with just the components actually needed.

As for the post being old, the thread began just the last update before mine was just one week ago! And as far as I can see he didnt say it was solved, so does that make it a dead discussion?

It might be an unpopular thing to have opposing viewpoints and point to SD stuff being the cause but closing a discussion doesn't seem like the way to fix that. I've loved my Prime for 6 years now but it's stuff like this that makes people want to give up the ghost

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:25 am

I am not going to get into the layout of my home with you but just know that it is way more than that and comprised of multiple segments. Admittedly, my router is a homebrew but I had this issue before several years ago with various network switch brands (tplink was underpowered while netgear worked) while I was using a commercial product. for long runs, I refer you to ohms law. On most server deployments, equipment is located in close proximity to each other not on opposite sides of buildings and multiple stories away. I put a lot of data through my nics from everything from numerous hdhr streams to numerous security cameras and more. I find that realtek nics last 6 months and intel, 1 year. I have tested this in multiple systems in multiple locations without any change in results. I find that it it strongly related to how much data I pump through them as my client system's nics seem to last longer than my servers's nics. I agree that it should not take all this work to get a system working however this is not silicon dust's fault. the op had a very damaged and defective network and was probably noticing issues in other areas as well.

The reason that I asked for this conversation to be locked is I saw it devolving quickly into a attack on my troubleshooting skills instead of trying to get the original issue solved.

Nickk please lock this thread.

jcmaedl
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:52 am

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby jcmaedl » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:45 am

Right. Good idea.

humblepie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby humblepie » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:59 am

Hey folks,

I had promised a reply but got a bit sidetracked with my home setup and forgot to update this thread.

I'll try and make this short. The tl;dr; is I am still having some issues but have a new HD Prime coming and am going to retest once that arrives. Additionally, I bought a Synology NAS so am going to try having the HDHomerun record there and see if that works. All of this won't happen until next week, however, as I am waiting for the new HW and still getting the new NAS setup.

@techpro2004 - THANK YOU for the NIC recommendations. I will never use the on-board NIC again. The difference in speed alone is worth the price, not to mention having dual, NICs and bonding them. Huge difference.

techpro2004
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby techpro2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:55 pm

Thanks for the compliment. I have been thinking about your issue and I have to admit, I do not use a netgear router. I do use netgear switches though. I found this link (viewtopic.php?f=119&t=67596&p=314540). Apparently, they are having similar issues with the same router. I hope this is helpful.

humblepie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: DVR recordings corrupted

Postby humblepie » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:26 pm

@techpro2004 - I definitely had my suspicions about that router. That thread definitely sounds familiar. As you can tell from this thread I have been in the process of changing over my network. Originally I had planned to do this throughout the year but my OCD to get this working has accelerated a lot of that work. I had planned to swap out that router a bit later this year for a Ubiquiti one but think I'll just "bite the bullet" and do that now. At least in doing that I'll pretty much be done with the network upgrade and should be able to test everything out.


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