what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
unrealdonald
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what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

I connected a homerun duo this weekend. Frames are a little choppy on all my devices (fireTV, AppleTV, LG TV, PC, Samsung TV) but when I run the antenna directly into either of my TVs I get a smoother picture. I was watching the superbowl, and I ended up just going with the antenna into the TV as it was a better/smoother picture. I suspect its a frame rate issue. Any ideas what is going on?

clarkss12
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

Same issue here.

unrealdonald
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

Ah well, I’ve started the return process. It’s too bad, such a great concept but poor implementation of its choppy for sports and the antenna in the TV is better.

Anyone have better hardware to check out? I just want to be able to pause live tv, I’m not interested in the PVR features.

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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

I purchased a new Google Certified Android box (Mecool KM6 Deluxe) last week, and it supports automatic frame rate switching. Last night while watching the Super Bowl, the frame rate kicked in causing the box to switch to 29.97 fps, and the game was all jerky. The stats said the broadcast was 29.97 fps, so the box was doing what it was supposed to do.
However, I switched over to the Connect 4k and the stats showed 59.xx frame rate, the box saw that frame rate and switched back to 60fps, the game played perfectly.
Question, where does the stream acquire the fps information, from the broadcast stream or does the HDHomeRun tuners give it
that framerate???

I also have a new HDR TV, but never connected the roof mounted antenna to it, so I could not compare the playback.

unrealdonald
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

When the game was jerky for you, was the android box the tuner or the connect 4k?

clarkss12
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

unrealdonald wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:09 am When the game was jerky for you, was the android box the tuner or the connect 4k?
The Android box has no tuner, it was using the over the air signal from my antenna sent to my HDHomeRun devices.

The Connect 4k has four tuners, the first two are ATSC 3.0 and the other two are ATSC 1.0. The ATSC 1.0 channels were being sent to my Android Box had a frame rate of 29.xx fps, the ATSC 3.0 channels had 59.xx as the frame rate. The game was jerky playing the ATSC 1.0 channel with the 29.xx frame rate.


https://imgur.com/UCXuYbu

https://imgur.com/Ws8grEX

clarkss12
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

unrealdonald wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:06 pm I connected a homerun duo this weekend. Frames are a little choppy on all my devices (fireTV, AppleTV, LG TV, PC, Samsung TV) but when I run the antenna directly into either of my TVs I get a smoother picture. I was watching the superbowl, and I ended up just going with the antenna into the TV as it was a better/smoother picture. I suspect its a frame rate issue. Any ideas what is going on?
It appears that your Fire TV and Apple TV support automatic frame rate switching. If you disable that function, the action sports should play smoothly ..........

Hopefully, Silicondust can solve this issue.

unrealdonald
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

Thanks - I don’t think it’s an Apple or fire/Amazon issue. If I run the antenna into the tv it’s smooth, but if I run the antenna into the hd connect and watch directly through the TV as a networked device the picture is choppy.

On a small screen I probably wouldn’t notice, but on a 65” tv it’s not enjoyable.

I doubt silicondust will address, I think I read on a different forum that they haven’t changed the firmware in a couple years.

Maybe the solution for my case is to purchase a 4k box with the atsc 3.0 once it’s available in Canada. We’re you watching a 4k broadcast (I know the game wasn’t 4k but the OTA channel could have been) on the atsc 3.0 tuner, or are you able to select which tuner you use within the unit when choosing what to watch. In my region, all channels are either 720p or 1080i for OTA.

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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

unrealdonald wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:21 am Maybe the solution for my case is to purchase a 4k box with the atsc 3.0 once it’s available in Canada. We’re you watching a 4k broadcast (I know the game wasn’t 4k but the OTA channel could have been) on the atsc 3.0 tuner, or are you able to select which tuner you use within the unit when choosing what to watch. In my region, all channels are either 720p or 1080i for OTA.
For testing purposes, I watched the game using the ATSC 3.0 channel for awhile, but since I prefer the Emby player better, I disabled the automatic frame switcher, which allowed the broadcast to play in 60fps, then I used the Emby player.

With the HDHomeRun app, you CAN select which tuner you wish to use to watch your show.

Your devices do support automatic framerate switching, and that is what caused your issues.. Those devices "saw" the 29.xx framerate from the stream from you Connect tuner and then switched your devices to play at 29.xx fps, causing the jerkiness.

https://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-fire-tv ... 0displayed.

https://support.apple.com/en-/HT208288# ... for%20NTSC.

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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by signcarver »

Depending on station it was probably an (de)interlace issue. Framerate doesn't "apply" to the tuner as it merely sends out the bits. It is all on the client (hardware and software) and network (preferably wired, though many won't have trouble with wifi, always try to eliminate that as a source of issues when troubleshooting).

Typically ATSC 3.0 streams won't be interlaced (it can be, which often brings up a lot more issues with clients) and interlaced content often reports 30 fps vs 60fps depending on what was used to display such. Depending on station though they may choose to go to 30 instead of 60 fps (ATSC 3.0 is so varied and in early testing that the channel may change such frequently as the engineers play around).

unrealdonald
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

clarkss12 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:10 am
unrealdonald wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:21 am Maybe the solution for my case is to purchase a 4k box with the atsc 3.0 once it’s available in Canada. We’re you watching a 4k broadcast (I know the game wasn’t 4k but the OTA channel could have been) on the atsc 3.0 tuner, or are you able to select which tuner you use within the unit when choosing what to watch. In my region, all channels are either 720p or 1080i for OTA.
For testing purposes, I watched the game using the ATSC 3.0 channel for awhile, but since I prefer the Emby player better, I disabled the automatic frame switcher, which allowed the broadcast to play in 60fps, then I used the Emby player.

With the HDHomeRun app, you CAN select which tuner you wish to use to watch your show.

Your devices do support automatic framerate switching, and that is what caused your issues.. Those devices "saw" the 29.xx framerate from the stream from you Connect tuner and then switched your devices to play at 29.xx fps, causing the jerkiness.

https://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-fire-tv ... 0displayed.

https://support.apple.com/en-/HT208288# ... for%20NTSC.
Thanks. This is confusing. If the devices saw the slow rate and switched to it, why was the stream telling them it had this slow rate? Also confused why it worked fine if it ran directly into either my LG or Samsung TV and I watched using the TV tuner?

clarkss12
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

unrealdonald wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am
clarkss12 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:10 am
unrealdonald wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:21 am Maybe the solution for my case is to purchase a 4k box with the atsc 3.0 once it’s available in Canada. We’re you watching a 4k broadcast (I know the game wasn’t 4k but the OTA channel could have been) on the atsc 3.0 tuner, or are you able to select which tuner you use within the unit when choosing what to watch. In my region, all channels are either 720p or 1080i for OTA.
For testing purposes, I watched the game using the ATSC 3.0 channel for awhile, but since I prefer the Emby player better, I disabled the automatic frame switcher, which allowed the broadcast to play in 60fps, then I used the Emby player.

With the HDHomeRun app, you CAN select which tuner you wish to use to watch your show.

Your devices do support automatic framerate switching, and that is what caused your issues.. Those devices "saw" the 29.xx framerate from the stream from you Connect tuner and then switched your devices to play at 29.xx fps, causing the jerkiness.

https://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-fire-tv ... 0displayed.

https://support.apple.com/en-/HT208288# ... for%20NTSC.
Thanks. This is confusing. If the devices saw the slow rate and switched to it, why was the stream telling them it had this slow rate? Also confused why it worked fine if it ran directly into either my LG or Samsung TV and I watched using the TV tuner?
I don't think your TV's switch frame rates......... There should be settings in your devices that enable or disable the automatic frame rate switching.

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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

signcarver wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:18 am Depending on station it was probably an (de)interlace issue. Framerate doesn't "apply" to the tuner as it merely sends out the bits. It is all on the client (hardware and software) and network (preferably wired, though many won't have trouble with wifi, always try to eliminate that as a source of issues when troubleshooting).

Typically ATSC 3.0 streams won't be interlaced (it can be, which often brings up a lot more issues with clients) and interlaced content often reports 30 fps vs 60fps depending on what was used to display such. Depending on station though they may choose to go to 30 instead of 60 fps (ATSC 3.0 is so varied and in early testing that the channel may change such frequently as the engineers play around).
No, is not a interlace issue, at least from my testing. But I could be wrong.
Do you have a device that automatically switches the frame rate?
The Shield does not switch the frame rate for TV.

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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by clarkss12 »

signcarver wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:18 am Depending on station it was probably an (de)interlace issue. Framerate doesn't "apply" to the tuner as it merely sends out the bits. It is all on the client (hardware and software) and network (preferably wired, though many won't have trouble with wifi, always try to eliminate that as a source of issues when troubleshooting).

Typically ATSC 3.0 streams won't be interlaced (it can be, which often brings up a lot more issues with clients) and interlaced content often reports 30 fps vs 60fps depending on what was used to display such. Depending on station though they may choose to go to 30 instead of 60 fps (ATSC 3.0 is so varied and in early testing that the channel may change such frequently as the engineers play around).
I have a new device that can globally switch the framerate to what it reads. So, this device saw the 29.97fps stream and change the framerate to 30fps, but caused a lot of jerkiness. The Shield, does NOT switch the framerate, and plays at 60fps........... So, it is a box issue......... I did disable the automatic framerate switching on my new box, so everything played in 60fps....
So, it appears to be a short coming of the firmware in my new box.

unrealdonald
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Re: what's the frame rate on the homerun duo

Post by unrealdonald »

Thanks for all the tips. I played around with the firestick settings - match frame rate on, off, different video resolutions - and all a bit jerky. I then went back into the tv tuner and it’s fine that way.

Packing this back up for a return, doesn’t seem to be working.

Thanks for the help, it was worth a try.

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