Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

Had a few of these today.. Most recent was 3:06 PM pn Channel 758. Mine doesn't always recover, however -- sometimes it just freezes up the stream completely and I have to change channel up/down in order to get the stream back. If I had to guess, the times where it takes too long to recover and freezes it completely -- are comparable to when my Tivo throws the V58 Not Authorized error if the freeze lasts too long.

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 15994
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by nickk »

We are testing a firmware update that detects the problem message and prevents it from causing problems.

Nick

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

By any chance, did someone look at my logs for 13277AB2 to see if it is the same issue causing my freezes as the original poster? Optimum is sending a tech out to check signals tomorrow - I know they won’t find any issues with the signal here.

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

Optimum tech was here earlier. Checked signal levels at all points starting at the street, at the splits, and at the devices. He spoke to another tech that told him there was a known issue with CableCards.. Signals were perfect everywhere except a little hot at one of the Tivo Minis, and he put a -3db pad on it. He apologized for not being able to fix it and said he had to send it up to outside plant.

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

So, I installed 20200907 a little bit ago. What exactly should happen when the tuner encounters this condition now?

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 15994
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by nickk »

RickNY wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:06 pm
So, I installed 20200907 a little bit ago. What exactly should happen when the tuner encounters this condition now?
You shouldn't see anything (ie it should just work) - the HDHomeRun prevents the problem from reaching the card and things keep working without issue.

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

Ok, I’ve been testing this for a couple of hours now between the TiVo and iPad with HDHomeRun app tuned to same channel simultaneously. The fix does appear to be working, as the iPad didn’t stutter when the TiVo has.

Of course this throws a monkey wrench into things on the TiVo side of things - if you guys can add code to deal with the issue, then TiVo can also. In fact, when a similar issue cropped up in 2015, TiVo ended up having to do that specifically for the NDS cards.

At any rate - thank you for your efforts on this and resolving the issue on this platform..

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

I am noticing some weird things going on - at least on the HDHR app on TiVo Stream 4K.. Some commercials seem to be freezing on a video frame, while audio continues - sometimes for as long as 30-40 seconds - but when the program resumes, everything syncs back up again.

My Android platform is limited to the TS4K, I don’t think I saw this behavior on the iPad and it doesn’t happen with every commercial (in fact it seems to happen with local commercials inserted by the cable company)

I should probably hold off on anything with the TS4K until it pulls down the latest firmware update that fixes the issues with the hardware MPEG decoding.

rpoitras
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:14 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by rpoitras »

Hey RickNY,

I mostly use WMC with these tuners and although I would get the freezing and pixelation during the issue it never completely killed the stream. Reading your posts it sounds like an issue on the client side and how well it recovers. Seems WMC is pretty good in this regards. I also use Emby and when the issue occurred it would be unrecoverable where the stream just froze forever. Finally, my daugher has a nVidia Shield using the HomeRun app and she hasn't complained since I installed the beta so I think it's handled there as well.

I hope you can somehow get TiVo to look into this because I agree with you in that if it's fixable by SD in software, it can probably be fixed by TiVo as well. I'm lucky here that SD is responsive and already have a system in place to facilitate debugging with the logs, etc. It's funny how I thought it was the firmware because the issue from Altice popped up exactly at the same time I happened to notice an available update on my Primes and upgraded.

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

So, are you guys now delaying the reporting of the PMT change to the CableCard for a specific amount of time so that the card doesn’t restart the decryption process prematurely? My observations were the breakups came in twos, roughly 30 seconds apart. Was the PMT changing and then reverting back to the original PMT after some amount of time?

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 15994
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by nickk »

RickNY wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:59 am
So, are you guys now delaying the reporting of the PMT change to the CableCard for a specific amount of time so that the card doesn’t restart the decryption process prematurely? My observations were the breakups came in twos, roughly 30 seconds apart. Was the PMT changing and then reverting back to the original PMT after some amount of time?
Two part fix...

1) Don't send a new ca_pmt message to the card if the new PMT doesn't result in a change to the ca_pmt information previously sent.

2) If an ES is detected in the PMT where the stream type is 0x86 (unknown type, not audio or video) AND there are no descriptors (no ECM information for conditional access) then skip reporting it in the ca_pmt message.

Nick

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

Thank you for being transparent about how it was fixed.. With any hope, other vendors of CC equipment (i.e. Tivo) may be willing to apply a similar fix to deal with this issue.

J-HR
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:02 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by J-HR »

Yes, I also would like to thank you for posting that detailed info on the fix.

It really shows that you value your customers highly :)

Thank you.

MikeLI
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:29 pm

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by MikeLI »

Thanks for the 20200907 firmware update. It fixed the freezing on my HDHR3-CC/NDS Cablecard/WMC7.

RickNY
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:18 am

Re: Freezes since 20200521 firmware update

Post by RickNY »

I’m no technical expert, but it looks like 0x86 stream type is reserved for ATSC:
caption service descriptor
0x86

Also, there had been questions raised at TCF as to why the issues cable boxes don’t experience the issue.. I had posted a response there regarding Optimum’s use of Simulcrypt on their system. They have a few different CA systems in play on the system. The standard issue Samsung box uses tru2way DCAS, the CableCards on some system use NDS VideoGuard, some systems use SA PowerKey. They basically built out their digital TV system from the beginning to be as open as possible, allowing them to mix and match equipment from various vendors without having to recall all the boxes when they wanted to change.

So my theory was that the Samsung boxes don’t experience the issue because they’re using a different CA system than the CableCards. Also, unlike other providers - Optimum never deployed their own boxes with CableCards. All of their boxes either used a smart card or use DCAS.

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