HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
Post Reply
jig
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:35 am

HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by jig »

I've been using an HDHR Prime with a cable card and tuning adapter for a few years now, and we regularly tune in KTLA 5 (local channel) in Los Angeles for local news in the morning. Within the last 2 weeks, the HRHRP became unable to tune that channel properly. We still have a Spectrum DVR set top box in the house, and that STP can tune in channel 5 just fine without visible/audible video or audio errors.

When we first noticed the issue, I checked and updated the firmware and reran the channel search. Neither process helped. Last night I unplugged the HDHRP and the tuning adapter, reseated the CC in the slot of the HDHRP, let the HDHRP and the tuning adapter sit for a few minutes, plugged in the tuning adapter, waited a few minutes, then plugged in the HDHRP, waited until morning, and checked reception of channel 5 - it's still bad.

In the channel menu I don't see any protection enabled on the channel. I checked tuning both at an RPi connected via HDMI to a regular TV and on my computer connected to an HDCP capable monitor, and channel 5 didn't tune in either instance (in the past both tuned channel 5 perfectly). At best I get very choppy audio (maybe 20% of the stream on a time basis) and individual broken frames of video.

This sort of looks like what I'd expect if the cable was damaged, but I don't think I've ever seen cable damage only affect a single channel (no other channels are affected), and I would have thought that kind of issue would show up in the STP as well. There is a splitter upstream of both the tuning adapter and the STP, so I guess it's conceivable that there's damage to the cable, but that run is entirely within the house, and we don't have mice, and we haven't been in those areas of the house for a year or more. I'd be surprised if it were physical damage to the cable.

Any help or thoughts?
Last edited by jig on Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jasonl
Expert
Posts: 15249
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KCAL 5

Post by jasonl »

5 is KTLA. KCAL is 9.

What do the signal numbers show on the tuner status page when you're tuned to whichever one of those is the actual problem? Particularly the frequency, signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality.

jig
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:35 am

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by jig »

jasonl wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:17 pm
5 is KTLA. KCAL is 9.

What do the signal numbers show on the tuner status page when you're tuned to whichever one of those is the actual problem? Particularly the frequency, signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality.
ouch, thanks for the catch. i've edited the post to correct the station ID. not sure how i got that wrong.

it's definitely channel 5. i'll check the signal numbers when i get home tonight and post back.

jig
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:35 am

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KCAL 5

Post by jig »

jasonl wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:17 pm
What do the signal numbers show on the tuner status page when you're tuned to whichever one of those is the actual problem? Particularly the frequency, signal strength, signal quality, and symbol quality.
on the tuner status page, while tuned to channel 5:
Virtual Channel 5 HD KTLA
Frequency 57.000 MHz
Program Number 517
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection none
Modulation Lock none
PCR Lock locked
Signal Strength 76% (-14.9 dBmV)
Signal Quality none
Symbol Quality none
Streaming Rate 3.327 Mbps

same when tuned to channel 4:
Virtual Channel 4 HD KNBC
Frequency 219.000 MHz
Program Number 501
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection none
Modulation Lock qam256
PCR Lock locked
Signal Strength 84% (-10.1 dBmV)
Signal Quality 100% (37.1 dB)
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate 12.613 Mbps

here's for channel 8 (closer in frequency):
Virtual Channel 8 HD KOCE
Frequency 69.000 MHz
Program Number 543
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection unrestricted
Modulation Lock qam256
PCR Lock locked
Signal Strength 83% (-10.5 dBmV)
Signal Quality 100% (36.2 dB)
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate 4.095 Mbps

ah, i'm seeing a pattern now - here's for channel 12:
Virtual Channel 12 HD KMEX
Frequency 57.000 MHz
Program Number 519
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection unrestricted
Modulation Lock none
PCR Lock none
Signal Strength 75% (-15.0 dBmV)
Signal Quality none
Symbol Quality none
Streaming Rate none

does this look like a cable issue?

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8920
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by signcarver »

personally on cable I would never want signal levels below -10dBmV and always shoot for between +/-7.

What type card/ta and how did you hook the rf up to the ta and the prime.

My personal preference is always to use a splitter and not daisy chain through the ta. If motorola the rf output of the TA is usually as bad as a 4 way split... if cisco, usually it can compensate for the loss but there can be issues that usually manifest themselves at the very high (above 700MHz) or very low frequencies (below 100MHz).

jig
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:35 am

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by jig »

well, everything was working fine up until a few weeks ago, and for ~2 years. i've run direct from the TA to the HDHRP.

here are the stats on the card:
Card Manufacturer Arris/Motorola
Card Authentication success
Card Validation success
3DES encryption supported
OOB Frequency 75.250 MHz
OOB Lock 2.048 Mbps
Signal Strength 87% (-8.4 dBmV)
Signal Quality 100% (40.2 dB)
Channel List tuning-resolver

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8920
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by signcarver »

With motorola you will probably do best with a splitter for the coax as there is usually about a 6-8 dbmv drop going out of the ta while a 2 way splitter would be about half that. I am a little surprised that the oob signal level is so high at 75 MHz compared to your problem channels at 57 MHz as typically providers run oob low and it isn't unheard of it being 5-10dbmv lower than the video qam channels as the modulation typically allows for it to be much lower but in your case it's about the same range higher.

As far as issues being new, lots could have caused that such as moving those channels or even changes in weather. It could also be an amp affecting the lower frequency channels has gone bad (could be anywhere your side or provider's side) .

3ton
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:34 pm

Re: HDHR Prime CC+tuning adapt. - lost single channel KTLA 5

Post by 3ton »

Connect the prime at the first CATV outlet from the street. Disconnect everything else. So the prime is the only thing connected from the cable company without any cables inside your house. Assuming you can get channels without the tuning adapter. Then see what your levels are. If they are anywhere below - 4db then call cable company and get them to check it out. If they are around zero add cables back one at time till you find problem. Then add the tuning adapter back with the two way splitter. Never run anything on the output of the tuning adapter. Good Luck.

Post Reply