HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

jseymour wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:07 pm
Barker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm
To me, this seems like the DHCP server on node #1 is outright refusing to provide a LAN address.
I'm assuming this is after the 24-hour honeymoon period, but not before? If so, it increases my confidence that the mesh network is black-holing the HDHR. As such: The DHCP server would not see the HDHR's renewal requests.

This is something you'd also be able too see with Wireshark.
Correct, this is after the ~24 hour period. I'll dig up a laptop and keep wireshark running overnight while connected to node #3.

Would udp.src == 192.168.86.49 provide adequate information?

Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

Barker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm
Just found out something else of interest. If I unplug the power to my HDHomeRun and re-plug, the HDHomeRun device becomes completely inaccessible across all nodes. To me, this seems like the DHCP server on node #1 is outright refusing to provide a LAN address.
Actually looks like I spoke too soon.

After performing these actions and waiting 30-60 minutes, HDHomeRun eventually became discoverable again across ALL mesh nodes.

EDIT: One significant thing of note is I did unplug node #4 and change it's physical location. It's possible this instance of the problem resolving itself occurred due to the mesh wireless backhaul re-configuring, which may have effectively been the same as a Nest WiFi system reboot.

Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

Barker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:23 pm
Barker wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 3:20 pm
Just found out something else of interest. If I unplug the power to my HDHomeRun and re-plug, the HDHomeRun device becomes completely inaccessible across all nodes. To me, this seems like the DHCP server on node #1 is outright refusing to provide a LAN address.
Actually looks like I spoke too soon.

After performing these actions and waiting 30-60 minutes, HDHomeRun eventually became discoverable again across ALL mesh nodes.

EDIT: One significant thing of note is I did unplug node #4 and change it's physical location. It's possible this instance of the problem resolving itself occurred due to the mesh wireless backhaul re-configuring, which may have effectively been the same as a Nest WiFi system reboot.
I examined my HDHomeRun system logs that had occurred during this time period and found something interesting.

Code: Select all

19700101-00:00:02 System: reset reason = power on
19700101-00:00:08 System: network link 100f
19700101-00:00:51 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
19700101-00:09:09 System: ip address obtained: 192.168.86.49 / 255.255.255.0
20200506-22:16:02 System: time changed from Thu Jan  1 00:09:25 1970 to Wed May  6 22:16:02 2020
DNS servers I've used are Google DNS (8.8.8.8) and Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1).

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8845
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by signcarver »

that error at that time would have made sense as it has no real ip for another 8 minutes nothing to do with the servers besides reaching them (or anything else on the internet) and anything else on your network. If you saw it again after your ip address change then I would be worried more about such.

Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

Well in case someone reads this in the distant future... Couldn't find a solution to fix HDHomeRun's LAN address disappearing on fully wireless mesh.

Only two workarounds appear to exist
  1. Route HDHomeRun through a Plex/Emby server running on the same mesh node.
  2. Use Ethernet backhaul across the entire mesh network (confirmed to resolve LAN addressing issue on Nest WiFi and Netgear Orbi)

jseymour
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 8:46 am

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by jseymour »

Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Well in case someone reads this in the distant future... Couldn't find a solution to fix HDHomeRun's LAN address disappearing on fully wireless mesh.
So Google's "upper tier of WiFi support" wasn't able to figure it out, either? From the symptoms you've reported I'm sticking with the guess that the WiFi mesh nodes are optimizing the HDHR tuner out of the network.
Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Only two workarounds appear to exist
[snip]
Use Ethernet backhaul across the entire mesh network (confirmed to resolve LAN addressing issue on Nest WiFi and Netgear Orbi)
At which point one might as well use whatever wireless APs they want.

FWIW: I've yet to see a networking pro have anything good to say about mesh WiFi products. Mainly due to the many experiences they've seen reported of the kind of thing you're experiencing.

EddieP
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:04 am

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by EddieP »

jseymour wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:06 am
Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Well in case someone reads this in the distant future... Couldn't find a solution to fix HDHomeRun's LAN address disappearing on fully wireless mesh.
So Google's "upper tier of WiFi support" wasn't able to figure it out, either? From the symptoms you've reported I'm sticking with the guess that the WiFi mesh nodes are optimizing the HDHR tuner out of the network.
Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Only two workarounds appear to exist
[snip]
Use Ethernet backhaul across the entire mesh network (confirmed to resolve LAN addressing issue on Nest WiFi and Netgear Orbi)
At which point one might as well use whatever wireless APs they want.

FWIW: I've yet to see a networking pro have anything good to say about mesh WiFi products. Mainly due to the many experiences they've seen reported of the kind of thing you're experiencing.
That is weird I just moved to an ASUS AIMESH system and use the wireless backhauls and have no problem with my Primes or connects staying on the network.

Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

EddieP wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:35 pm
jseymour wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:06 am
Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Well in case someone reads this in the distant future... Couldn't find a solution to fix HDHomeRun's LAN address disappearing on fully wireless mesh.
So Google's "upper tier of WiFi support" wasn't able to figure it out, either? From the symptoms you've reported I'm sticking with the guess that the WiFi mesh nodes are optimizing the HDHR tuner out of the network.
Barker wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:53 pm
Only two workarounds appear to exist
[snip]
Use Ethernet backhaul across the entire mesh network (confirmed to resolve LAN addressing issue on Nest WiFi and Netgear Orbi)
At which point one might as well use whatever wireless APs they want.

FWIW: I've yet to see a networking pro have anything good to say about mesh WiFi products. Mainly due to the many experiences they've seen reported of the kind of thing you're experiencing.
That is weird I just moved to an ASUS AIMESH system and use the wireless backhauls and have no problem with my Primes or connects staying on the network.
What HDHomeRun are you using? There's always the possibility that my problem is specifically on the HDHR4-2US. Or perhaps the ASUS mesh system simply doesn't exhibit this behavior - can't say for certain regardless.

EddieP
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:04 am

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by EddieP »

I have Quatros , 2 tuner Connects and 2 Primes.
Model: HDHR4-2US
Model: HDHR5-4US
Model: HDVR-4US-1TB
Model: HDHR3-CC

My Mesh System.
https://www.asus.com/us/Networking/AiMe ... 2U-2-Pack/

jasonl
Expert
Posts: 15219
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by jasonl »

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but Asus seems to be one of the only big names that actually has a clue what they're doing when it comes to mesh networks. They just seem to pass everything and not try to outsmart devices on the network. Netgear tries to outsmart things but isn't actually smart so it causes all sorts of problems. The older Google mesh stuff usually seemed to work OK as well, but maybe not so much the Nest stuff?

Barker
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 2:42 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by Barker »

On a different note, here's an interesting log. I re-recreated the failure wireless mesh failure situation and simply waited a couple hours. Tried re-plugging ethernet as well to see if it would coax the situation along. It eventually re-obtained a LAN IP, and here's what the HDHomeRun reports.

Code: Select all

20200514-10:23:33 Tuner: tuner0 http stream ended (remote closed)
20200514-10:30:46 System: ip address expired
20200514-10:31:09 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-10:40:21 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-10:50:12 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:00:21 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:10:20 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:21:04 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:31:18 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:40:35 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-11:49:59 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:00:41 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:09:50 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:20:23 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:29:53 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:40:49 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-12:50:19 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:00:38 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:11:08 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:21:12 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:30:56 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:40:23 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-13:50:59 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:00:33 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:11:27 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:22:05 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:33:00 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:42:16 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-14:51:56 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:01:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:10:53 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:21:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:31:52 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:41:58 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-15:52:04 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:01:36 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:12:02 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:22:26 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:32:49 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:41:51 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-16:51:11 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:01:12 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:10:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:20:46 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:30:16 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:41:11 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-17:50:47 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:01:41 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:10:49 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:21:22 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:31:50 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:42:29 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-18:52:24 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:02:30 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:12:13 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:21:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:30:32 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:39:44 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:49:08 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-19:58:40 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:08:45 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:18:34 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:28:54 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:39:36 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:48:45 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-20:58:27 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:08:50 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:18:18 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:27:23 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:36:31 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:47:19 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-21:56:38 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:06:19 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:15:35 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:25:42 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:36:31 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:47:08 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-22:57:50 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:07:32 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:18:28 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:29:16 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:38:53 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:49:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200514-23:58:16 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:07:39 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:15:55 System: network link down
20200515-00:16:03 System: network link 100f
20200515-00:16:46 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:26:17 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:35:36 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:45:30 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-00:56:01 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-01:05:43 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-01:15:30 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-01:25:14 System: myhdhomerun_sync: webclient error (dns failed)
20200515-01:28:04 System: ip address obtained: 192.168.86.49 / 255.255.255.0
Looks like the LAN IP expires and can't renew with the DHCP server.

rpcameron
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:55 am

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by rpcameron »

Barker wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:44 pm
Looks like the LAN IP expires and can't renew with the DHCP server.
I wonder if this is somehow related to the Prime ethernet firmware issue from a couple of years ago. On certain network topographies, the Prime would fail to acknowledge a DHCP renewal, and would no longer become reachable on the network. The solution was to either A) use modified cables or 100Mbps only switches to ensure that the device wasn't operating at GbE, or B) to isolate the HDHR tuners into a private link-local 169.254/16 network behind another computer that managed its connections.

Any word from the devs that this might be more than just rogue mesh networks?

shawn_75
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:19 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by shawn_75 »

This is only anecdotal, but I have some devices at work that use Rabbit boards from Digi. I have to disable spanning tree protocol on the switches they are connected to in order to get them to obtain an IP address via DHCP. I don't know the reason why, it just is. I imagine STP is an integral part of a mesh network and could possibly be interfering with DHCP. On one of my switches where I do not want to disable STP, I have a small 5 port unmanaged switch between the Rabbit and the managed switch and it works just fine.

JDazell
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:19 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by JDazell »

jasonl wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:43 pm
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but Asus seems to be one of the only big names that actually has a clue what they're doing when it comes to mesh networks. They just seem to pass everything and not try to outsmart devices on the network. Netgear tries to outsmart things but isn't actually smart so it causes all sorts of problems. The older Google mesh stuff usually seemed to work OK as well, but maybe not so much the Nest stuff?
TP-Link Deco Mesh also works beautifully with HDHR devices. I have tested with M5 and P7.

breezytm
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: HDHomeRun Mesh WiFi Discovery Issues

Post by breezytm »

Have you tried reserving an IP for the device. I am curious to see what would happen.

I just pulled the trigger on Orbi since my TP-Link Archer died after 3 years of solid performance. Streaming HDHR across my parents apartment to 3 devices simultaneously over WiFi with 0 complaints. I am hoping to keep things that way. I don't want any phone calls about things not working. I think the mesh devices should arrive tonight. I'll give them a shot. The minute I see problems that require more than an hour of my time to troubleshoot I am shipping them back.

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