Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
dave01
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:21 pm

Hi there, looks like I'm having a very similar issue here with channel 13 - WVNY (ABC) over a similar antenna (Stellar Labs 30-2476) and an AD Clearstream Juice preamp. I'm 89 miles LOS away from the station, signal strength is at 86, SR 60 and SQ at 100. It's pretty stable for a little while, then the SQ starts dancing, up and down from 0 to 100 for no apparent reason.

I have tried both an HDHR4-2US and a newer HDHR5-4US with the same result.

However, I'm not having this issue on my Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD or my Haier TV set...? :?: :? :shock: As well, I had to add a stub in line to attenuate the strong signal from adjacent channel 12 to make both HDHR versions work for channel 13. My hauppauge card or my Haier TV were working fine without and could handle the signal ok without it.

I thought at first it was the HDHR4 that was having issues because it had an older tuner in it, but I had similar results with the HDHR5 unfortunately, except for the signal strength and SR that were maybe 2-3 points stronger.

I'm now out of ideas as to how or if I can make any of my HDHR work for WVNY, which it is its sole use as it is dedicated to this antenna.

Anybody has any insight on this issue or would know how to fix it?

Thanks,
Dave

NedS
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by NedS » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:00 pm

Please follow the steps for Tuner diagnostics: https://info.hdhomerun.com/info/trouble ... iagnostics

Then reply back with your Device ID printed on the bottom fo the HDHomeRun.

dave01
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:05 am

Hi there, done, diagnostic enabled on the HDHR5, device ID 10798E5C.

Today we've got no wind, clear sky and the SNR is not stable at all on channel 13, the SQ is dancing every little while already.

I had my antenna plugged to my TV watching ABC prior to switching the cable to the HDHR and was having a clear and stable picture, with 3 bars signal for what its worth.

Thanks for your help.
Dave

dave01
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 am

At around 10AM I have added a 3 dB (approx. as it's homemade) attenuator inline right before the HDHR5 and I have not seen drop outs in SQ in the last 5 minues or so.. Maybe that's the little extra kick in attenuation it needed to drop the adjacent channel a little more?

Are your tuners that sensitive to adjacent channel interference?

dave01
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 am

Been monitoring it for the last half an hour or so and there are still drop outs on the SQ unfortunately, I spoke too soon... :(

dave01
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:04 pm

So I went outside earlier today and hooked up the stub and 3dB attenuator right before the preamp at the antenna... Then checked the signal on the HDHR5 which was then still hooked to a splitter with a 75 ohm termination on the open port, signal was ok, strength showing around 75, SNR around 62-63, the SQ looked to be stable. I then removed the splitter, which took the signal strength to low 80's but the SQ started dancing almost instantly...

I then tried the HDHR4 no splitter and I'm seeing a signal strength at 90, SNR at 68 and SQ almost all the time at 100... I just enabled diagnostics on it, Device ID 1040FB55 if you want to have a look at it, but I'm giving up with the HDHR5 and will be returning it, something doesn't look right on it. I have hooked it up to my other antenna and it also not detecting WFFF, which is coming up at 86% strength on the Hauppauge card, both hooked after the same splitter, same cable length.

Oh well, RF is like voodoo magic I guess... :D

dave01
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:18 pm

The HDHR4 crashed hard after a little over an hour of use, the same as Monday, weird.... Was working great, then the signal went down, wouldn't go up at all.... Hooked it to the WinTV card, working great, checked back with the HDHR4, still no luck, hooked up the splitter with a termination on the open port and magic, slight loss on the signal strength, down to 84 from 90, but the SNR seems to hold in the upper 60's, 68-69.

Let's see if it crashes again in an hour or so...

shoman94
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by shoman94 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:19 pm

dave01 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Hi there, looks like I'm having a very similar issue here with channel 13 - WVNY (ABC) over a similar antenna (Stellar Labs 30-2476) and an AD Clearstream Juice preamp. I'm 89 miles LOS away from the station, signal strength is at 86, SR 60 and SQ at 100. It's pretty stable for a little while, then the SQ starts dancing, up and down from 0 to 100 for no apparent reason.

I have tried both an HDHR4-2US and a newer HDHR5-4US with the same result.

However, I'm not having this issue on my Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD or my Haier TV set...? :?: :? :shock: As well, I had to add a stub in line to attenuate the strong signal from adjacent channel 12 to make both HDHR versions work for channel 13. My hauppauge card or my Haier TV were working fine without and could handle the signal ok without it.

I thought at first it was the HDHR4 that was having issues because it had an older tuner in it, but I had similar results with the HDHR5 unfortunately, except for the signal strength and SR that were maybe 2-3 points stronger.

I'm now out of ideas as to how or if I can make any of my HDHR work for WVNY, which it is its sole use as it is dedicated to this antenna.

Anybody has any insight on this issue or would know how to fix it?

Thanks,
Dave

I think that station will be going thru a change? Looks like it will be moving from RF13 to RF7.


Whats you zipcode?

dave01
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:28 pm

shoman94 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:19 pm


I think that station will be going thru a change? Looks like it will be moving from RF13 to RF7.


Whats you zipcode?
Darn! I hope not... We have channel 7 broadcasted from Sherbrooke 81 miles away at 102 degrees from where I live...

My postal code is J7P 5A9, QC province.. TV Fool --> http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&I ... bb43f415c0

I think this one would cause me bigger headaches than adjacent channel 12...

Where do you look for this information?

dave01
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:46 pm

You are correct, found it.. --> https://www.nab.org/repacking/clearinghouse.asp

Results
Call Sign: WVNY
DMA: Burlington, VT-Plattsburgh, NY (97)
Old Channel: 13
New Channel: 7
Facility ID: 11259
Transition Phase: 10

Phase 10
May 2, 2020 - July 3, 2020

At least my antenna will not be obsolete and still good for channel 7, will be interesting to see how Sherbrooke channel 7 will be interfering with WVNY, as right now, I'm already seeing it in the scan once and a while. At least it's a 2Edge channel for me, so it'll vary based on the weather I guess...

But thanks for the info, I didn't know about that.

Will this involve any other changes for me?

nickk
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by nickk » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:47 pm

Hi,

First, I would recommend staying with the HDHR5-4US - it has superior small signal RF performance compared with the older HDHR4-2US model.

When you say "crash", do you mean a reduction in signal quality and associated poor video?

Nick

dave01
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by dave01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:17 pm

Crash as the signal would start acting up, then literally go null. SQ would go down to zero and SNR in the 40 and stay there. I tried to re-tune the channel to reset the signal with no luck.

Now, with the splitter added, it seems to be just enough to render the HDHR4 stable on channel 13. I couldn't get the HDHR5 that stable so I already returned it.

nickk
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Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by nickk » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:32 pm

The log confirms reception errors. Signal strength is fine. Signal quality is a bit low.

To get numbers like that it could be a weak station that is being amplified before the HDHomeRun, too much total spectrum power (LTE for example), or possibly interference from a local source.

A good test would be to connect the HDHomeRun directly to your antenna with a coax cable. No amplifiers or splitters... direct to the antenna to see what the numbers look like.

The fact that adding attenuation is helping kinda suggests a problem with too much total spectrum power. TV antennas tend to be most efficient at receiving the upper UHF band and the upper UHF band is now used by LTE cell phones instead of TV. It may be necessary to add a LTE filter so that the different amplifiers in the path are not swamped by it. (this includes the amplified splitter inside the HDHomeRun).

Nick

shoman94
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by shoman94 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:48 pm

nickk wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:32 pm
The log confirms reception errors. Signal strength is fine. Signal quality is a bit low.

To get numbers like that it could be a weak station that is being amplified before the HDHomeRun, too much total spectrum power (LTE for example), or possibly interference from a local source.

A good test would be to connect the HDHomeRun directly to your antenna with a coax cable. No amplifiers or splitters... direct to the antenna to see what the numbers look like.

The fact that adding attenuation is helping kinda suggests a problem with too much total spectrum power. TV antennas tend to be most efficient at receiving the upper UHF band and the upper UHF band is now used by LTE cell phones instead of TV. It may be necessary to add a LTE filter so that the different amplifiers in the path are not swamped by it. (this includes the amplified splitter inside the HDHomeRun).

Nick

I agree, with the latest repack I've had to remove my Pre-amp because it was causing a lit of problems.

shoman94
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Fox 11 symbol quality dipping every 15-20 sec - dave01

Post by shoman94 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:53 pm

dave01 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:28 pm
shoman94 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:19 pm


I think that station will be going thru a change? Looks like it will be moving from RF13 to RF7.


Whats you zipcode?
Darn! I hope not... We have channel 7 broadcasted from Sherbrooke 81 miles away at 102 degrees from where I live...

My postal code is J7P 5A9, QC province.. TV Fool --> http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&I ... bb43f415c0

I think this one would cause me bigger headaches than adjacent channel 12...

Where do you look for this information?

Jesus, with that line up you don't need a pre-amp. I removed my Juice as well and just use a 4 port Distribution Amp Splitter. You are using a dedicated tuner for this antenna?

What are you using for UHF antenna?



Can you put the info here and share the link? https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

TVFool isn't up to date anymore.

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