HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

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jseymour
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HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jseymour » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:21 pm

Looking to settle a question raised elsewhere: Do the HDHomeRun Duo and Quatro network tuners have internal preamps? I would have sworn I saw somebody from SD say, more than once, they do, but can't find it mentioned.

Thanks!

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by nickk » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:36 pm

Hi,

Confirming, the HDHomeRun DUO and QUATRO both feature a low noise amplifier (LNA) in the RF input stage.

Nick

rpcameron
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by rpcameron » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:39 pm

Was that added to just the latest generation, or have SD's tuners always had a preamp of some sort?

jseymour
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jseymour » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:56 pm

nickk wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:36 pm
Hi,

Confirming, the HDHomeRun DUO and QUATRO both feature a low noise amplifier (LNA) in the RF input stage.

Nick
Thanks for the follow-up and confirmation, Nick!
rpcameron wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:39 pm
Was that added to just the latest generation, or have SD's tuners always had a preamp of some sort?
IIRC, it was mentioned at least as far back as when I first acquired our HDHR CQ, a bit over a year-and-a-half ago.

jasonl
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jasonl » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:25 am

An amp has been present since the move from separate inputs per tuner to a single input (gen 3).

speedingcheetah
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by speedingcheetah » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:10 pm

What db is this internal pre-amp?

I was using a OTA antenna with a amplifier for a while, but noticed some channels were pixelating and breaking up, despite having high signal stats of at or very near 100%. While other stations, that were lower, were fine.

Some research here and there, and mention on the Channels DVR fourms, that HDHR tuners are very sensitive and already have a amp in them, so I many have been over powering the tuner using a powered amplified antenna when i comes to the stations that already have strong signal.

I removed the amp from the antenna, and that did seem to help smooth things out, however, i still have a few channels, the ones whose transmitter is the farthest away from me about 40 miles, to which a amp very much does help get the the signal better (~55 to 60% no amp, 75-80% with amp). ~485Mhz UHF. But, there does not seem to be a very low power low db OTA amp out there, or a programmable/SMART one, that i can say control via Bluetooth or wifi and set each db power setting for each channel frequency via an app on my phone.

Billi23
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by Billi23 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:33 pm

jasonl wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:25 am
An amp has been present since the move from separate inputs per tuner to a single input (gen 3).
Does that include the HDHR3-CC 3 tuner Prime?

jseymour
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jseymour » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:01 am

speedingcheetah wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:10 pm
But, there does not seem to be a very low power low db OTA amp out there, or a programmable/SMART one, that i can say control via Bluetooth or wifi and set each db power setting for each channel frequency via an app on my phone.
That latter one I suspect you're never going to see. These preamps are all wide-band amps that amplify everything across the entire specified band--including noise. That latter point is why mast-mounted preamps are better than those mounted down near the equipment, because they avoid amplifying noise induced in the antenna feedline.

I imagine there are companies that will design a low-noise preamp to your specifications, but I also imagine the cost would be prohibitive.

jasonl
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jasonl » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:26 pm

The amp is different in each model because of different needs. You've also got splitter loss to figure in, so the net gain at the tuner ends up being very little.

speedingcheetah, if you don't already have one, you might want to add a 700MHz LTE filter like the one Channelmaster makes. Overload happens because of the combined signal level across all frequencies. For people who live a long way from the TV broadcast towers, local LTE signals will often end up being stronger than the TV signals themselves, and when amplified, cause the overload. Filtering them out will give you more headroom on the TV signals. Unfortunately no one is making one for the new repacked TV band yet.

Billi23, yes the PRIME has an amplifier to overcome splitter loss.

speedingcheetah
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by speedingcheetah » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:54 pm

jseymour wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:01 am
speedingcheetah wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:10 pm
But, there does not seem to be a very low power low db OTA amp out there, or a programmable/SMART one, that i can say control via Bluetooth or wifi and set each db power setting for each channel frequency via an app on my phone.
That latter point is why mast-mounted preamps are better than those mounted down near the equipment, because they avoid amplifying noise induced in the antenna feedline.

I imagine there are companies that will design a low-noise preamp to your specifications, but I also imagine the cost would be prohibitive.

The amp was right at the antenna, not at the other end.

From my research, and what others tell me who also have been needing such a low db amp, or smart amp, none exist.

shawn_75
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by shawn_75 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:59 pm

jasonl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:26 pm
you might want to add a 700MHz LTE filter like the one Channelmaster makes. Overload happens because of the combined signal level across all frequencies. For people who live a long way from the TV broadcast towers, local LTE signals will often end up being stronger than the TV signals themselves, and when amplified, cause the overload. Filtering them out will give you more headroom on the TV signals. Unfortunately no one is making one for the new repacked TV band yet.
Great discussion here.

When 5G comes, do you expect we'll need to filter that out too, or is it far enough out of band?

speedingcheetah
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by speedingcheetah » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:00 pm

jasonl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:26 pm
The amp is different in each model because of different needs. You've also got splitter loss to figure in, so the net gain at the tuner ends up being very little.

speedingcheetah, if you don't already have one, you might want to add a 700MHz LTE filter like the one Channelmaster makes. Overload happens because of the combined signal level across all frequencies. For people who live a long way from the TV broadcast towers, local LTE signals will often end up being stronger than the TV signals themselves, and when amplified, cause the overload. Filtering them out will give you more headroom on the TV signals. Unfortunately no one is making one for the new repacked TV band yet.
For me, the Quatro gets far stronger signal levels then direct connecting my antenna (Mohu Striker) to my TV input.

LTE filter is no good for me, as it blocks the 800Mhz UHF 33- channels I do watch and cant get via streaming or TVE.
(Bounce, Mystery,LAFF, Cozy,GRIT)
List of stations in my area: https://nocable.org/availability-report ... eapolis-mn#

I did see on one of those OTA Antenna "cord cutter" sites in my antenna research and chan frequency research, one site said i was NOT affected by "the repack".....no idea what was. The tool tip said something of some stations changing frequencies...I recall something like that a few or several years ago on the news, but I had Cable then, so paid no attention to it.

I did notice that the amp that came with the antenna, has LTE filter in it, and sure enough, none of the 33- chans work with it connected.

jasonl
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jasonl » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:33 pm

LTE filter is perfect for you. Trusting incorrect websites is your problem. K33LN-D operates on channel 33, which is 587MHz. 800MHz would be the bottom of channel 69, and that's all been LTE for years now. That station hasn't been on channel 69 in like 20 years anyway, with a stint on 14 starting in 1999, before getting bumped to 33 in 2011.

jasonl
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by jasonl » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:47 pm

shawn_75 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:59 pm
When 5G comes, do you expect we'll need to filter that out too, or is it far enough out of band?
T-Mobile's stuff in the 600MHz band may start requiring new filters at some point. But, for what it's worth, I'm in an area where they have already lit it up, and right now the strongest signal I'm getting in that band is only 74%. I have something in the 700MHz band that hits 115%, so T-Mobile isn't an issue here so far. I also haven't seen any scans from anyone where overload from signals in that band is an issue, either, while of course 700MHz is a big issue. A bigger worry will be what happens in the UK once they finish clearing TV off the 700MHz band and start lighting that up with some sort of mobile service. LTE filters in the UK only block above 800MHz, so a lot of people will start to see issues once those become obsolete.

speedingcheetah
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Re: HDHomeRun Duo & Quatro: Internal Preamps?

Post by speedingcheetah » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:01 pm

jasonl wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:33 pm
LTE filter is perfect for you. Trusting incorrect websites is your problem. K33LN-D operates on channel 33, which is 587MHz. 800MHz would be the bottom of channel 69, and that's all been LTE for years now. That station hasn't been on channel 69 in like 20 years anyway, with a stint on 14 starting in 1999, before getting bumped to 33 in 2011.
AH i didnt notice that in the HDHR tuner yea, it is 587.

Regardless, a LTE filter would have a slight attenuation effect would it not?
I have 3 channels, ION, Qubo, Ion Plus (41-) that just barely are strong enough to work mostly smoothly.
Even the slightest attenuation will cause them to not work, that is why i need a amp, just for that frequency 495Mhz, ad tower is 25+ miles away.

I don't see a need for a LTE filter as of yet, not having any issues with channels breaking up alot.

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