No Tuning Resolver Connected

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:42 am

I have turned on Send Diagnostic Information for both tuners.

HDHomeRun PRIME
Model: HDHR3-CC
Device ID: 1314EE31
Firmware: 20190621
Spectrum/Brighthouse Central Florida

I have had an ongoing problem with channels not working or not being where they should. Whenever I see this I hard boot the tuner/tuning adapters and visit the Spectrum site to get them to send a reset. Sometimes it fixes it.

This morning I noticed one of my Primes does not show a tuning resolver being connected although that tuner is active and changing channels. It seems to be the default tuner first in line. The tuning adapter has a green light that is flashing. This tuner shows 258 available channels. The Status on this tuner is:

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Card Authentication	success
Card OOB Lock	success
Card Validation	success

Tuning Resolver Menu
No Tuning Resolver connected
Tuning Resolver Status
Authentication	none
Downstream	none
Upstream	none
Operational Status	none
User Inactivity	none

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Hardware Model	HDHR3-CC
Firmware Version	20190621
DTCP-IP	DTCP 1.7-SD20180501
WMDRM-NDT	WMDRM 10-SD20171110
Memory Report	64 MB SDRAM, 2 MB Flash
Power Status	Active
Boot Status	Booted
Device ID	1314EE31
MAC Address	00:18:DD:31:4E:E3
IP Address	192.168.1.114
Subnet Mask	255.255.255.0
The second Prime

Model: HDHR3-CC
Device ID: 13129237
Firmware: 20190621

This tuner shows 465 available channels
The green light on the resolver is steady and shows under Tuning Resolver Status

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Card Authentication	success
Card OOB Lock	success
Card Validation	success
Tuning Resolver	initializing

Tuning Resolver Menu

Tuning Resolver Pages

Tuning Resolver Status
Authentication	success
Downstream	success
Upstream	success
Operational Status	ready
User Inactivity	none

Code: Select all

Hardware Model	HDHR3-CC
Firmware Version	20190621
DTCP-IP	DTCP 1.7-SD20180501
WMDRM-NDT	WMDRM 10-SD20171110
Memory Report	64 MB SDRAM, 2 MB Flash
Power Status	Active
Boot Status	Booted
Device ID	13129237
MAC Address	00:18:DD:31:29:23
IP Address	192.168.1.113
Subnet Mask	255.255.255.0
And the tuning resolver page for this is

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Status: Ready
CPU/Bus: 594/174
MEMORY
Ev Pool: 744
System Heap
Total: 116514808
Free: 114494464
Largest: 114407988
Chunks: InUse=11763, Free=47
SARA Heap
Total: 358400
Free: 73440
Largest: 72540
Video Heap
Total: 14680064
I hesitate to get the cable company involved in this until I see what you have to say since it's difficult to find someone there who has a concept of the type of system that I have and can troubleshoot adapter CC issues.

Do you think this is a problem with the tuner or the CC and adapter? I can't swap the CC's because they are provisioned to work with a specific tuner.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8353
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by signcarver » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:04 am

Tuning adapters are the weakest link in any setup that has them. At my old place with a prime i could rely on 3-4 months of use without issue but that gets cut to 6 weeks with 4 tuner boxes and just under a month on 6 tuner boxes (could be coincidence but those were different providers of 4 and 6 tuner devices)

At my new place no matter what i'm lucky to get 3 weeks (up to 6 weeks dec-feb) but in my case its a known issue of connecting a TA to an rfog system. So what I generally do is reboot the TA every 2 weeks. (Lately I have been staggering rebooting the TAs by a week so if there is an issue usually one device still has the channel)

In your area, I would probably check the connection into the house as often it could be a condensation issue.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:41 pm

Thanks, I'm reticent to declare the physical cable itself the problem because my TV and internet share the same wire. I have no problems with my current internet connection and the TV signal on channels that actually work is flawless with no breakup. Yeah the TA's have never been replaced so they probably are the weak link in the chain. Spectrum use to show whether the devices were reachable on their reset page. But they don't do that any longer.

It serves me well to do as much of my own troubleshooting as I can because the Spectrum charges for housecalls.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8353
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by signcarver » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:48 pm

By the way, you should probably make sure to look at the 2 rf statistics pages as (often the important one is RDC on the 2nd page). The reason I suggest looking at connectors is that often that upstream, though similar to cable modems, is often far below what the cable modem is using.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:52 pm

K I'll check it out. Thanks!

jasonl
Silicondust
Posts: 14249
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by jasonl » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:04 pm

The tuning adapter should still be seen from the HDHomeRun even if it has RF problems with the cable provider. If a reboot of the TA doesn't restore it, I'd try another USB cable, and if that doesn't do anything, replace the TA.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Thanks. That's what I thought.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:45 am

Okay, after wandering around through a cable company rabbit hole I was able to ID the problem as very low signal to the TA's. One seemed to be functioning but I guess it was really low but still sort of functional.

I replaced the Prime and the TA for the bank that was causing problems as well as the cabling and had no improvement. The TA might provision or not. But if it did it was more than likely to drop off after a while.

Luckily I was able to reach out to the team @ Spectrum which specializes in CC/TA's and they were able to explain that the failure seemed to be with the signal strength of the FDC (Forward Data Channel ) signal which I was able to find in the TA menu

Although the basic signal strength to the individual TA/Tuners was in the acceptable range, somewhere between -2 to +2 dBmv range. The FDC was around -18dBmv.

The tech that they sent out to troubleshoot the problem was a 'wire' guy and had a difficult time understanding where the problem was. He measured the input signal and kept getting acceptable results but didn't understand that test told him nothing about the actual problem. He finally called a supervisor. I explained the situation, along with my readings from the TA and CC menus from the tuners.

I'm a little unsure about their solution though.

An amp. Instead of addressing the low FDC as a component of the whole multiplexed signal they decided to sledgehammer the problem with a line amp and jack up the whole thing to force the FDC into acceptable range. As a result they are pumping + 6~7.5 db to the tuners and are only able to increase the FDC to -6 or so. Yeah I know +12 to -12 is okay, but it seems like a "just make it work" answer. They didn't check the pedestal right out in front of my house, but I guess that job belongs to a different crew.

Should I pad the signal going to the Primes? I don't want to overdrive the RF amps.

The following readings are after the service call. Only time will tell.

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CURRENT FDC
Freq: 75.500 MHz
DAVIC: Connected
Status: Locked
Level: -7 dBmV
Seconds: 1597
Corr Bytes: 7948
Uncor Blks: 7121
Errs Avg/Inst: 5 / 0
Total Bytes: 1959521748
S/N: 25 dB
CURRENT QAM
Freq: 177.000 MHz
Tuning Mode: QAM-256
Status: Locked
Level: 5 dBmV
NextPage Previous Refresh Home

CableCARD Status
Card Manufacturer	Technicolor/Cisco
Card Authentication	success
Card Validation	success
3DES encryption	supported
OOB Frequency	75.500 MHz
OOB Lock	1.544 Mbps
Signal Strength	100% (6.5 dBmV)
Signal Quality	100% (33.1 dB)
Channel List	tuning-resolver

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8353
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by signcarver » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:06 am

FDC is your OOB and is designed to work at much lower levels (I've seen it successfully work down to -20, though i do prefer if a little higher, in the old days this would never be above -1) it is your qam signal that should be between +/-10 (preferably +/-7) however if you look, your prime is reporting oob as +6.5 while the ta is reporting such at -7 for the exact same frequency. Of the 6 TAs and 6 primes I can look at from my home, the variance is never more than 2dBmV between TA and the prime its on (the TA typically shows 1dBmV lower).

Either the TA is bad or there is something up with your wiring. (Note if daisy chaining ta to prime, i would expect an increase of 1-3dBmV with a cisco TA). It is almost as if an fm trap is on the line to the TA but not on the line to the prime.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:49 am

My wiring was: One run RG6 from outside to a 3 way splitter I have no idea what the FDC signal was on the input to the splitter. One run each to the TA's and through to each Prime. Simple. The third leg goes to my cable modem. Nothing special. The distance between the outside and the splitter is about 30'. The distance from the splitter to the TA's is 3 feet. The distance between the TA and the Primes is 10 inches.

Image

All wire has been replaced except for the 30 feet to the outside. That run passed all the tests that the tech ran.

The cable guy installed this monster

Image

One TA has been replaced to no measurable effect.

I still think the problem is with the amp in the pedestal.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 8353
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by signcarver » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:48 pm

Jimmersd wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:49 am
I still think the problem is with the amp in the pedestal.
Often I would agree with this but that same signal is feeding the prime which is giving a 13dBmV swing for the same frequency. Personally I don't like daisy chaining the prime through the TA, though usually on a cisco TA you can get away with such, I have seen issues with the internal amp of the TA that has affected the high end (above 650MHz) and/or the low end (below 150MHz) so by not going through the TA one gets a more accurate picture. What modem do you have as some D3/D3.1 provide a spectrum analyzer.

I have seen stacking TA's the way you have it cause issue with a TA... In one of my installs, connecting a laptop fan (cooler) to the front USB port and putting it in between the two helped tremendously.

From TA
CURRENT FDC
Freq: 75.500 MHz
DAVIC: Connected
Status: Locked
Level: -7 dBmV
From Prime
CableCARD Status
Card Manufacturer Technicolor/Cisco
Card Authentication success
Card Validation success
3DES encryption supported
OOB Frequency 75.500 MHz
OOB Lock 1.544 Mbps
Signal Strength 100% (6.5 dBmV)
Signal Quality 100% (33.1 dB)
That shows your 13.5 point swing where they should be nearly identical.

jasonl
Silicondust
Posts: 14249
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by jasonl » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:04 pm

Odd that the TAs were reporting -18. That's the same as the out of band channel for the CableCARD, and one HDHomeRun was reporting +3dBmV and the other about -0.5dBmV, and those were the numbers from last weekend.

Do you have a fan or anything on those TAs? From what I remember, the STA1520 has vents on top and the manual explicitly says not to stack anything on top because it will impede airflow, and it runs pretty hot to begin with. Failure due to overheating wouldn't surprise me.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:30 pm

signcarver wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:48 pm
Often I would agree with this but that same signal is feeding the prime which is giving a 13dBmV swing for the same frequency. Personally I don't like daisy chaining the prime through the TA, though usually on a cisco TA you can get away with such, I have seen issues with the internal amp of the TA that has affected the high end (above 650MHz) and/or the low end (below 150MHz) so by not going through the TA one gets a more accurate picture. What modem do you have as some D3/D3.1 provide a spectrum analyzer.

I have seen stacking TA's the way you have it cause issue with a TA... In one of my installs, connecting a laptop fan (cooler) to the front USB port and putting it in between the two helped tremendously.
I have done as you recommended. Since the amp left by Spectrum had 2 spare ports I just connected the tuners to those. I have also added space between the TA's to allow for circulation. But I gotta tell you, I have been running them stacked like this since 2013 :D. If I get a couple minutes to spare I'll rig up a fan to assist.

Well see..
jasonl wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:04 pm
Odd that the TAs were reporting -18. That's the same as the out of band channel for the CableCARD, and one HDHomeRun was reporting +3dBmV and the other about -0.5dBmV, and those were the numbers from last weekend.

Do you have a fan or anything on those TAs? From what I remember, the STA1520 has vents on top and the manual explicitly says not to stack anything on top because it will impede airflow, and it runs pretty hot to begin with. Failure due to overheating wouldn't surprise me.
The cable company didn't supply an installation manual with the TA's. Since the bottom TA is a replacement from Spectrum (last Friday) I don't think there has been time to do any damage. I have removed the daisy chain connections and given each tuner it's own line off of the amp.

The readings have not changed with the new configuration.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:34 pm

Oh and I bypassed everything and ran a cable from the TA directly to the main cable input and the measurements did not improve.

Jimmersd
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:32 pm

Re: No Tuning Resolver Connected

Post by Jimmersd » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:59 pm

I checked the tuner log file and can see that both tuners are repeatedly doing this starting around 1pm on the card..
That is the same time that the tech was here..9am est.
I called the cable company and they say as long as I have a picture then there is nothing that they can do. I asked them to send out reset pulses to the tuners but the person that I spoke with wouldn't even do that.

Completely frustrated.

Code: Select all

20190915-22:59:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:00:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:02:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:03:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:04:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:05:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:07:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:08:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:09:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:11:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:12:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:13:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:15:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:16:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:17:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:18:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:20:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:21:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:22:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:23:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:25:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:26:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:27:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:28:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:30:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:31:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:32:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:33:51 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:35:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:36:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:38:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:39:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:40:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:41:31 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:43:01 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:44:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:45:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:46:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:48:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:49:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:50:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:51:41 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success
20190915-23:53:11 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: in progress
20190915-23:54:21 CableCARD: Tuning Resolver upstream status: success

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