HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
Prime
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:31 am

HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by Prime » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 am

I know the HDHomeRun Prime needs to stay on for the cable card to remain in touch with the cable company (well, I am assuming that is still the case).
Recently I started using a Fire TV Cube and the HDHomeRun app. For years I used a third party app on Apple TV 4 and 4K to access the card. But, while the screen UI on Apple TV is way better than Amazon, the badly designed Apple remote drove me bonkers. The Amazon remote is just easier to use.
Anyhow, the Apple TV, no matter what app you were in, if you put it to sleep, the whole thing went to sleep. Including the tuner that was in use on the HDHomeRun Prime, shut off.
But with Fire TV, if you power off, the tuner keeps running on the Prime.
Why does SiliconeDust let this happen with their app? It is their device so, why leave it running if the Fire TV is powered off?
If they also turn off the tuner, that is a power to a few thousand homes saved right there. If they can sleep the entire device, that is a power plant saved.

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by NedS » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:23 am

The Fire TV Cube isn't actually turning off or going to sleep. It's pretending to, but it's not. Unless there is an active connection, the Prime will release the tuner.

I don't know how you are figuring your math there on electrical savings. The power usage of a Prime actively tuning or not would take decades to show any kind of significant savings, as the device barely consumes power even on "full load". Even if every single Prime ever made was magically updated to consume no power at all, you wouldn't be saving a "power plant" worth of power. Unless maybe that power plant is powered by hamsters running in wheels. Silicon Dust will always strive to decrease our carbon footprint and produce equipment that is energy efficient, but let's not misrepresent real world statistics :)

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by nickk » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:30 am

Hi,

How are you powering off the Fire TV Cube? (ie what steps / button presses so we can test the same way here).

CableCARD devices are required to keep the OOB tuner, video+control buses, and the CableCARD operating at all times. Likewise the main CPU is required to listen for and process data from the CableCARD at all times. (The cable industry defines standby as turning off the video output ports).

Under full load with a CableCARD installed and all tuners streaming the PRIME draws ~6W.

The HDHR3-CC has a power save feature where it will power down any tuner that isn't streaming data.

Nick

jseymour
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by jseymour » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 am

Prime wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 am
If they also turn off the tuner, that is a power to a few thousand homes saved right there. If they can sleep the entire device, that is a power plant saved.
Exaggerate much? Image

Prime
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:31 am

Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by Prime » Sun May 12, 2019 8:16 am

NedS wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:23 am
I don't know how you are figuring your math there on electrical savings. The power usage of a Prime actively tuning or not would take decades to show any kind of significant savings, as the device barely consumes power even on "full load". Even if every single Prime ever made was magically updated to consume no power at all, you wouldn't be saving a "power plant" worth of power. Unless maybe that power plant is powered by hamsters running in wheels. Silicon Dust will always strive to decrease our carbon footprint and produce equipment that is energy efficient, but let's not misrepresent real world statistics :)
Apparently the use of hyperbole in rhetoric is not taught in engineering school.

Prime
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by Prime » Sun May 12, 2019 8:19 am

jseymour wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 am
Prime wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 am
If they also turn off the tuner, that is a power to a few thousand homes saved right there. If they can sleep the entire device, that is a power plant saved.
Exaggerate much? Image
OK, so a small power plant, which most are or increasingly so. Also, as energy efficiency becomes the norm, low power use will be and is, preferable. Hence all those smart thermostats sold nowadays.

sspell
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by sspell » Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 am

Most power plants produce 300 to 500 megawatts power 1 megawatt will power more than 150000 primes at full power draw so no it would not even take a small power plant to power them unless you talking about an average wind mill power plant that would probably power most in the country at 1.5 megawatt.
Edit: some coal plants produce more than 2000 megawatts

Prime
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:31 am

Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by Prime » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:46 am

nickk wrote:
“The HDHR3-CC has a power save feature where it will power down any tuner that isn't streaming data.”
This is not the case. When I turn off the Cube, the tuner LED is still on and will remain on indefinitely. I have to quit the app first, which then turns the tuner off, then power off the Cube.

signcarver
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by signcarver » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:06 am

As stated, turning off the fire devices don't turn off or really go to "full sleep" also keep in mind that the record engine (if you have one) is what is tuning from the tuner and it has to be "told" to stop (but I believe it also would stop if you unplugged your fire device so it had no active ethernet for it to communicate with)

Prime
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by Prime » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:22 am

I think you misunderstood me.
The Cube goes to sleep (or whatever). I am not talking about the Cube.
The Prime tuner LED remains on. If I wake the Cube, the station is right there pronto. But if I have quit HDHomeRun FTV app, the LED goes off. On relaunch of HDHomeRun app, the LED comes on. So, that means, if you do not quit HDHomeRun, the tuner (or tuners) remain active and, if they may or may not be using electricity (it obviously is) they are clogging up the home network too.

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by NedS » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:14 pm

It sounds like the Fire TV is faking sleep and not even stopping the app, but just turning the HDMI port off.

rrussis82
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Location: Western MA

Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by rrussis82 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:55 pm

I haven't looked at what the prime is doing, but on the Toshiba FireTV edition I noticed if I use the sleep time to turn off the tv while using the HDHomerun APP, the next time I turn it on and go to the HDHomerun APP it doesn't go to the initial screen of finding the tuners then to the recorded section like I have it set in settings, it goes straight to where I left off, if it is live TV it brings me there. Almost like the APP never stops and keeps running in the background. If I reboot my NAS (running the Synology SPK by Demonrik) the record engine doesn't always start unless I go to the tv open HDHomerun and manually back out of the APP.

I don't complain about it because its a FireTV issue not an HDHomerun issue.

2leftfeet
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Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by 2leftfeet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:11 pm

I'll jump in here. I have several Fire TV devices and all work as "Prime" has stated - tuner stays locked on channel if I put the FTV(s) to sleep while currently playing a channel.

What I have resorted to, as a work-around, is to pause the play, hit the back key on the remote several times until the main menu screen is displayed, then put the FTV to sleep. In this way, the tuner is released for use by another source.

rrussis82
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Location: Western MA

Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by rrussis82 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:53 pm

2leftfeet wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:11 pm
I'll jump in here. I have several Fire TV devices and all work as "Prime" has stated - tuner stays locked on channel if I put the FTV(s) to sleep while currently playing a channel.

What I have resorted to, as a work-around, is to pause the play, hit the back key on the remote several times until the main menu screen is displayed, then put the FTV to sleep. In this way, the tuner is released for use by another source.
and isn't that a FireTV issue, not SiliconDust, as it is in the way and manner Amazon programmed "sleep" or "power off" on their devices. If it is a big deal start asking Amazon why they chose not to close out APPS when their devices are in sleep or powered off state

2leftfeet
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: HDHR Prime wasting electricity

Post by 2leftfeet » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:28 pm

rrussis82 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:53 pm

and isn't that a FireTV issue, not SiliconDust, as it is in the way and manner Amazon programmed "sleep" or "power off" on their devices. If it is a big deal start asking Amazon why they chose not to close out APPS when their devices are in sleep or powered off state
Maybe, but maybe it is the HDhomerun app - note: don't have this issue with other apps..

If there were a stop play control, this issue could be averted altogether.

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