Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
21hawk
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Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby 21hawk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:16 am

I receive my local FOX channel KRBK, on it's new single tower system and on another frequency they were sharing as a supplement to their old multi tower system. The HDHomerun chooses the old system on frequency 31, for 49.1 and 49.2 (which are actually sub channels to 31.1 on that transmitter), and the new transmitter on frequency 22 for 49.3 and 49.4, which aren't available on frequency 31 simulcast. The 49.1 and 49.2 on frequency 22 have better sound and a better picture, but I am assuming the HDHomerun thinks the signal is better on frequency 31 and defers to that. Anyway to cure this?

signcarver
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby signcarver » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:52 am

I would enable sending of diagnostics data and do a scan so SD can offer an explanation as to why it chose one or the other. Just to be clear, you are not saying it's the same programs on 49.3 and 49.4 just that 22 has those subchannels available while 31 does not (I originally read it the other way until I looked at KRBK's subchannels and that 49.1 was retransmitting as 49.3 on another station). Though most likely would be a coincidence, I have had luck if I did a scan without any antenna hooked up as a way to clear the data (if it still picks something up, most likely that signal is too strong and you would probably need to figure out other ways to readjust)

Typically the way it works when there are two 49.1's is it picks the higher resolution first and if it is the same, I believe it goes to strength... as a result, unless you are over amplifying causing issues, it should have picked the better one. From what I saw, both were 720p so it all comes down to strength (or quality).

Unfortunately SD's apps rely entirely on the scan, other apps may not rely on the tuner reporting the lineup and usually allow one to manually enter such information. So the only way for it to pick one virtual channel 49.1 when more than one is present, is to adjust signal in a way that it doesn't choose that one.

21hawk
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby 21hawk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:25 am

Well, it's a pretty convoluted situation, but basically I want to 22.3 - 22.6 to be rendered as channels 49.1 - 49.4 as they are intended to be ... currently the HDHomerun culls out the 22.3 and 22.4 and replaces with 31.2 and 31.3 which are simulcast as subchannels on a different tower. so, virtual channels 49.1 - 49.4 are using 31.2-3 and 49.5-6. When I use the tv tuner, the difference is very noticable, 22.3 sound is 5.1 and much more vivid color compared to 31.2. on a related note.., who's on first, what is on second, .....I think

THe krbk tower(22) is closer, taller and stronger powered than the WB31 tower, however it generally has a lower SNR due to a low power channel 90+ miles away causing interference by squatting on 22. Both 31 and 22 have 100 signal and symbol quality, with SNR sometimes dropping into 60s. If I try to use antenna to manipulate the results, I will lose other channels further south. There are 2 other full power channels on the same tower as KRBK both have SNR in the upper 80s, so I feel pretty good about the amp.

I generally keep diagnostics enabled.

nickk
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby nickk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Hi,

If the channels have different virtual channel numbers the HDHomeRun will show all of them.

If you have two towers broadcasting the same virtual channel numbers the HDHomeRun will go with whichever is higher resolution, then higher signal quality.

Nick

21hawk
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby 21hawk » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:47 pm

Hi,

If the channels have different virtual channel numbers the HDHomeRun will show all of them.

If you have two towers broadcasting the same virtual channel numbers the HDHomeRun will go with whichever is higher resolution, then higher signal quality.

Nick
Sure would like to get 5.1 audio and better picture, why not show all channels and allow users to uncheck the ones they don't want? This keeps my Plex server from accessing the better quality as well, so I can't record them. I am sure this isn't terribly common, but all the same, it seems this device is the only tuner I have that doesn't allow me to choose. Like your product, by the way.

21hawk
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Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby 21hawk » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:19 am

I just tried to deselect the "problem" frequencies and running a channel scan, I found that during the scan I can favorite the desired channels or deselect the channels in question, but after a few seconds, my selections "transfer" the setting to suit the default you have established. For example, I favorite the KRBK-D1 49.1 (22.3) as it pops up in the scan, and X the KRBK (31.2), after a few seconds they swap, and then the desired are culled as the scan ends. These settings "stick" and are there during later scans, the desired channels already have the X. If the settings didn't swap and just went away in the cull, I would think that making selections during the scan is not allowed, but? Now, I am certainly no software guy, but it would seem to me there has been some amount of work done to prevent the consumer from exercising their discretion. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the need for this? Thanks again.

signcarver
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby signcarver » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:54 am

What you have the option of "deselecting" is based on the virtual channel number, not the end results.

The scan is what it is... only way around such is changing the signal as it scans all the channels to get its list and only allows one channel listed per virtual channel number. In your case you have 2 physical channels with the same virtual channel number so the only way the device itself (thus SD's apps which rely on what the device has for that virtual channel number) is if one channel had a different resolution as it would prefer highest resolution... as I recall for those stations they are both 720p so this doesn't come into play. Then it chooses by signal quality, keep in mind that overamplification reduces that quality (as well as other factors). Unfortunately there are also background scans so even if you temporarily changed the signal (i.e. re-aim antenna) to get the correct one, it may change such back. Third party apps that allow for legacy equipment, typically don't require the lineup be maintained by the tuner as the app maintains the lineup, not the tuner.

21hawk
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Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby 21hawk » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:35 pm

What you have the option of "deselecting" is based on the virtual channel number, not the end results.

The scan is what it is... only way around such is changing the signal as it scans all the channels to get its list and only allows one channel listed per virtual channel number. In your case you have 2 physical channels with the same virtual channel number so the only way the device itself (thus SD's apps which rely on what the device has for that virtual channel number) is if one channel had a different resolution as it would prefer highest resolution... as I recall for those stations they are both 720p so this doesn't come into play. Then it chooses by signal quality, keep in mind that overamplification reduces that quality (as well as other factors). Unfortunately there are also background scans so even if you temporarily changed the signal (i.e. re-aim antenna) to get the correct one, it may change such back. Third party apps that allow for legacy equipment, typically don't require the lineup be maintained by the tuner as the app maintains the lineup, not the tuner.
Thank you for your input, I can see by the number of posts that you have invested a fair amount of time discussing these products.

I must, however be candid with you. I did read your complete post, but it appears that in a rush to condemn, you might have skimmed over mine too quickly. The channel that I, me, in my situation wish to view, is 22.3 because it, while offering the same resolution, offers better color and better sound, 5.1DD. I have multiple televisons that include every receivable signal in the guide, this includes 49.1 and 49.2 twice each.

If one had read all of my posts, without prejudice, they should see that I understand what the gentleman stated as to the process by which the signal is culled. It should as well, be clear that despite judgement from afar, I do not believe that the "best' signal is being chosen, rather the one with less noise. Most often the noise levels are within 3 marks, and both above 72, sometimes dropping as low as the high 60s, and the real 49.1 has never shown any evidence of an inferior signal whilst viewing outside of the HDHomerun app(s).

My latest post, after having spent more time familiarizing myself with how the scan was working, was to share my recent experience and asking for clarification and insight as to why it worked that way. Your latest reply, if I am being completely honest, offered neither. Simply regurgitating parts of what had already been established, while ignoring some very crucial statements. My goal, as always in these types of forums, is very simple: Live to help, by trying to solve a problem, you've already won the argument.

WIth the spectrum auction, channel repack, industry consolidation, proliferation of subnets, and decisions focused on ATSC 3.0 demanding greater amounts of flexibility and ingenuity, I will choose to observe and ask, and to not accept it is what it is and that's the way it will be.

signcarver
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Re: Receive local FOX on two seperate frequencies, HDHomerun defers to lower quality, how to choose one over the other?

Postby signcarver » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:10 pm

I answered how I read your issue... similar to the first statement, it wasn't clear what you meant (even nickk seemed to have read the first as the alternative source had different virtual channel numbers, not the same)- in this case mainly because you said deselect "frequency" ... the lineup you see has nothing to do with frequency only virtual channel numbers. I do not suggest doing any favoring or disabling until the scan completes but either way and whatever you attempted to do would not have changed the end results of what gets served to you but perhaps may change whether a virtual channel was enabled or disabled by the time it finishes a scan.

There is an issue if a channel gets "dropped" that it does not remember settings if that is what you are asking about.


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